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> Especially with regards to the environment. > while your business profits tens of millions of dollars a year These two points from both of your comments don

> Especially with regards to the environment. > while your business profits tens of millions of dollars a year These two points from both of your comments don't really reconcile (today). Sure, if you're optimizing for "profits tens of millions of dollars a year" then go ahead and spend/receive as much money as you can and disregard all else, like the environment, employees health and so on. But, if we want to have sustainable companies, in terms of profit and impact on the earth together with it's inhabitants, then we need to go further than just considering how we can add that next million to our ARR.

nickjj 5y ago
> These two points from both of your comments don't really reconcile (today). I didn't write both comments btw, the parent comment who I replied to is someone else who mentioned the environment. > Sure, if you're optimizing for "profits tens of millions of dollars a year" then go ahead and spend/receive as much money as you can and disregard all else, like the environment, employees health and so on. It's possible to be environmentally friendly, have reasonable server costs for an app built with Python / Ruby / PHP, keep employees happy and make major progress towards improving Earth. The place I work at is focused on clean energy management and the environment. It's a privately owned company so it's not my place to share any numbers but I can say we don't throw money at problems as a first line of action. For context, the company has been around for over 10+ years and uses PHP (public info based on HTTP headers). I joined a few months ago as a full time employee after spending ~20 years being a solo developer doing contract work. I hope that sets the stage for how much I like the folks working there and how they run things. Also for context, I don't actively write PHP there. My role is focused on deploying their app(s) although I have developed some Python based services for them (I did contract work with them for a while before joining full time).
hiptobecubic 5y ago
I really don't think the world is going to be saved by building your crud apps in rust instead of python. Consider instead what could be done if the company that is able to grow twice as fast has a charity matching program? Or, i don't know, imagine we tried to fix something that actually would cause a dent, like not encouraging everyone to buy new smartphones and laptops every year, not allowing international shipping to externalize the costs of burning "lowest imaginable quality" diesel, etc. This comment feels like saying "Turn off your LED lights when you go to bed!" while your neighbors are literally burning tires in their backyards.
- OtomotO 5y ago
  > I really don't think the world is going to be saved by building your crud apps in rust instead of python. If that is all we are doing to "save the environment", then surely not. On the other hand, if we are going towards a wall with 200km/h and only "lightly break" (so not pushing the break really hard), then we will still crash, maybe with 100km/h, still deadly. What I want to say: No, it (being more resource-friendly) is not the one solution, but it's part of a greater solution.
vidarh 5y ago
Developer time needed has an environmental cost too. It's not at all clear that optimising server usage will always be worth it if it requires more developer time even from an environmental perspective.

nickjj 5y ago

> These two points from both of your comments don't really reconcile (today). I didn't write both comments btw, the parent comment who I replied to is someone else who mentioned the environment. > Sure, if you're optimizing for "profits tens of millions of dollars a year" then go ahead and spend/receive as much money as you can and disregard all else, like the environment, employees health and so on. It's possible to be environmentally friendly, have reasonable server costs for an app built with Python / Ruby / PHP, keep employees happy and make major progress towards improving Earth. The place I work at is focused on clean energy management and the environment. It's a privately owned company so it's not my place to share any numbers but I can say we don't throw money at problems as a first line of action. For context, the company has been around for over 10+ years and uses PHP (public info based on HTTP headers). I joined a few months ago as a full time employee after spending ~20 years being a solo developer doing contract work. I hope that sets the stage for how much I like the folks working there and how they run things. Also for context, I don't actively write PHP there. My role is focused on deploying their app(s) although I have developed some Python based services for them (I did contract work with them for a while before joining full time).

hiptobecubic 5y ago

I really don't think the world is going to be saved by building your crud apps in rust instead of python. Consider instead what could be done if the company that is able to grow twice as fast has a charity matching program? Or, i don't know, imagine we tried to fix something that actually would cause a dent, like not encouraging everyone to buy new smartphones and laptops every year, not allowing international shipping to externalize the costs of burning "lowest imaginable quality" diesel, etc. This comment feels like saying "Turn off your LED lights when you go to bed!" while your neighbors are literally burning tires in their backyards.

OtomotO 5y ago
> I really don't think the world is going to be saved by building your crud apps in rust instead of python. If that is all we are doing to "save the environment", then surely not. On the other hand, if we are going towards a wall with 200km/h and only "lightly break" (so not pushing the break really hard), then we will still crash, maybe with 100km/h, still deadly. What I want to say: No, it (being more resource-friendly) is not the one solution, but it's part of a greater solution.

vidarh 5y ago

Developer time needed has an environmental cost too. It's not at all clear that optimising server usage will always be worth it if it requires more developer time even from an environmental perspective.