3 ms·

You need to back up US dollars with actual labor/production, not hypothetical bit "work"

by mgh2 5y ago

olalonde 5y ago
I am confused by what you mean here. My best interpretation is that your are comparing the US dollar creation process with Bitcoin's? The processes are different indeed but I don't see how it contradicts my original point. Also, the federal reserve creates money out of thin air, there is no labor or production involved (more efficient than Bitcoin mining for sure). If your meaning instead was that the US dollar is backed by something (e.g. "labor/production"), then I'd argue this is incorrect. In economics, when X is backed by Y, it means that there is a guarantee that X can be converted for some known amount of Y. This is not the case for the US dollar although it's true that in practice, it does behave a lot as if.
- mgh2 5y ago
  It is not a guarantee. I think it as a promise - a loan for the American public to repay it back with real work, thus to heal and grow the economy. The American work ethic has so far backed this up, but yeah there is always a risk that this will not be fulfilled - ex: "The great resignation" So bitcoin's "promise" is their marketing? "The next internet, currency, etc."? I will be careful with this, since the last 2 crises (dotcom and mortgage securities) were similar empty promises hyped by the rich - i.e. lies.
  - olalonde 5y ago
    Bitcoin is just a software/protocol, it doesn't have a marketing team. Personally, I think Bitcoin's biggest appeal is that it's decentralized. No one has control over the money supply. It's pseudonymous. Anyone can use it and participate. That is not the case of the US dollar, not even close. Of course, if you don't believe those are desirable properties, Bitcoin is not going to appeal to you. Regarding price, I won't comment about that since it's quite unpredictable and I have no idea.
    - somewhereoutth 5y ago
      It is a Ponzi scheme. It serves only as a transparent, immutable, and complete ledger of the fraud that took place.
      - olalonde 5y ago
        A Ponzi scheme is an investment scam. How is that related to Bitcoin, a distributed protocol? Who are the victims? Who are the fraudsters? What is the deception? Which element of the scam applies to Bitcoin but not to gold or the US dollar?
        somewhereoutth 5y ago
        Gold is a tangible commodity. USD can be used to pay your taxes. The victims are the last people to put USD into the crypto system, the fraudsters the ones who set it all up and collect the USD. The deception is that BTC is a currency, or an asset, or a technology, or indeed anything other than a complicated way to pay early entrants with money from later players.
        olalonde 5y ago
        If I sold Bitcoin last year, that would make me a fraudster according to your definition? If I plan to hold Bitcoin, am I also a victim? If I have Bitcoin is it more ethical for me to keep it or to sell it? I can't say I was ever deceived though, I understand Bitcoin pretty well down to the lines of code. Also, did you know that the person or group of persons that "set it all up", Satoshi Nakamoto, never sold his Bitcoins?
        somewhereoutth 5y ago
        Well that is the genius of the system - nobody is quite sure who is who - not even themselves! Do you understand tulip bulbs pretty well too?
    - CaptainZapp 5y ago
somewhereoutth 5y ago
Taxes is the answer you are looking for - you can pay your taxes in USD. That is what underwrites its value.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- olalonde 5y ago
  See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30051813 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30051813

You need to back up US dollars with actual labor/production, not hypothetical bit "work"

by mgh2 5y ago

You need to back up US dollars with actual labor/production, not hypothetical bit "work"

I am confused by what you mean here. My best interpretation is that your are comparing the US dollar creation process with Bitcoin's? The processes are different indeed but I don't see how it contradicts my original point. Also, the federal reserve creates money out of thin air, there is no labor or production involved (more efficient than Bitcoin mining for sure). If your meaning instead was that the US dollar is backed by something (e.g. "labor/production"), then I'd argue this is incorrect. In economics, when X is backed by Y, it means that there is a guarantee that X can be converted for some known amount of Y. This is not the case for the US dollar although it's true that in practice, it does behave a lot as if.

mgh2 5y ago
It is not a guarantee. I think it as a promise - a loan for the American public to repay it back with real work, thus to heal and grow the economy. The American work ethic has so far backed this up, but yeah there is always a risk that this will not be fulfilled - ex: "The great resignation" So bitcoin's "promise" is their marketing? "The next internet, currency, etc."? I will be careful with this, since the last 2 crises (dotcom and mortgage securities) were similar empty promises hyped by the rich - i.e. lies.
- olalonde 5y ago
  Bitcoin is just a software/protocol, it doesn't have a marketing team. Personally, I think Bitcoin's biggest appeal is that it's decentralized. No one has control over the money supply. It's pseudonymous. Anyone can use it and participate. That is not the case of the US dollar, not even close. Of course, if you don't believe those are desirable properties, Bitcoin is not going to appeal to you. Regarding price, I won't comment about that since it's quite unpredictable and I have no idea.
  - somewhereoutth 5y ago
    It is a Ponzi scheme. It serves only as a transparent, immutable, and complete ledger of the fraud that took place.
    - olalonde 5y ago
      A Ponzi scheme is an investment scam. How is that related to Bitcoin, a distributed protocol? Who are the victims? Who are the fraudsters? What is the deception? Which element of the scam applies to Bitcoin but not to gold or the US dollar?
      - somewhereoutth 5y ago
        Gold is a tangible commodity. USD can be used to pay your taxes. The victims are the last people to put USD into the crypto system, the fraudsters the ones who set it all up and collect the USD. The deception is that BTC is a currency, or an asset, or a technology, or indeed anything other than a complicated way to pay early entrants with money from later players.
        olalonde 5y ago
        If I sold Bitcoin last year, that would make me a fraudster according to your definition? If I plan to hold Bitcoin, am I also a victim? If I have Bitcoin is it more ethical for me to keep it or to sell it? I can't say I was ever deceived though, I understand Bitcoin pretty well down to the lines of code. Also, did you know that the person or group of persons that "set it all up", Satoshi Nakamoto, never sold his Bitcoins?
        somewhereoutth 5y ago
        Well that is the genius of the system - nobody is quite sure who is who - not even themselves! Do you understand tulip bulbs pretty well too?
  - CaptainZapp 5y ago

somewhereoutth 5y ago

Taxes is the answer you are looking for - you can pay your taxes in USD. That is what underwrites its value.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
olalonde 5y ago
See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30051813 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30051813