4 ms·

It's functionally inferior, because if you go into it expecting modern elasticsearch you'll be sorely disappointed. It's only now that it's been renamed to Open

by ljm 5y ago

It's functionally inferior, because if you go into it expecting modern elasticsearch you'll be sorely disappointed. It's only now that it's been renamed to OpenSearch that this becomes less of an issue, as the two technologies have completely diverged. Anything AWS decides to run a managed version of will automatically have an advantage over the non-AWS equivalent but that's not a property of the technology itself really, it's just that you've already done all the paperwork and bureaucracy to use AWS in your org. I mean, the word we're not using here but ought to is vendor lock-in. I don't really need the patronising remark about recognising other's needs either.

acdha 5y ago
> It's functionally inferior, because if you go into it expecting modern elasticsearch you'll be sorely disappointed. Or, for a large number of people, won't notice the difference. There are some important questions about how ElasticSearch's license & community works, and whether you're risking lock-in by using a managed service, but detail-free hyperbole contributes noise but not value to that discussion. For example, what are the features you think no user of ElasticSearch could live without which are in ElasticSearch after 7.10 but not OpenSearch 1.1? What percentage of users depend on those features? How concerned are you about vendor lock-in with ElasticSearch's unilateral control of the project's roadmap? Do you think there's more or less risk from an open source project you can run anywhere which, you fear, will not be updated as frequently or from one which has a history of backwards-incompatible changes requiring you to stay current or fall out of support by popular clients?
- ljm 5y ago
  These are all questions about the merits of either technology. We've already identified that the merit of a managed AWS (but really any cloud provider) solution is that you've already done your due diligence for that provider, and that alone far outweighs whatever other merit you might consider. Some of the other stuff is what I might consider if I had to make a case for approving a new vendor, but this is an overwhelming barrage of rhetorical questions that makes it difficult to have a reasoned conversation about. I mean, come on... what percentage of users depend on those features? Unilateral control over a product roadmap? Am I supposed to actually know these things when stating my opinion that OpenSearch is lame in comparison to the original ElasticSearch, based on my anecdotal experience of dealing with the two? Do you have those answers yourself? As to the risk, a fair question. There's currently a threat that ES client libraries will reject a connection to OS (and I recall this has already been done for some languages). Not the end of the world but the only people who have lost out from the licensing spat you've alluded to are the users. The risks of onboarding Elastic as a new vendor or self-hosting are well known and part of the usual discussion of trade-offs one will have.
  - acdha 5y ago
    You were making some absolute assertions, so yes, I would expect you to have some actual examples based on real experience. Asking you what homework you based that on wasn’t rhetoric but simply a question because I know multiple projects using OpenSearch who’ve had no problems other than Elastic sabotaging certain clients. It would be useful to know, for example, if there was a certain class of functionality or performance challenge where the difference is significant.

by ljm 5y ago

acdha 5y ago

> It's functionally inferior, because if you go into it expecting modern elasticsearch you'll be sorely disappointed. Or, for a large number of people, won't notice the difference. There are some important questions about how ElasticSearch's license & community works, and whether you're risking lock-in by using a managed service, but detail-free hyperbole contributes noise but not value to that discussion. For example, what are the features you think no user of ElasticSearch could live without which are in ElasticSearch after 7.10 but not OpenSearch 1.1? What percentage of users depend on those features? How concerned are you about vendor lock-in with ElasticSearch's unilateral control of the project's roadmap? Do you think there's more or less risk from an open source project you can run anywhere which, you fear, will not be updated as frequently or from one which has a history of backwards-incompatible changes requiring you to stay current or fall out of support by popular clients?

ljm 5y ago
These are all questions about the merits of either technology. We've already identified that the merit of a managed AWS (but really any cloud provider) solution is that you've already done your due diligence for that provider, and that alone far outweighs whatever other merit you might consider. Some of the other stuff is what I might consider if I had to make a case for approving a new vendor, but this is an overwhelming barrage of rhetorical questions that makes it difficult to have a reasoned conversation about. I mean, come on... what percentage of users depend on those features? Unilateral control over a product roadmap? Am I supposed to actually know these things when stating my opinion that OpenSearch is lame in comparison to the original ElasticSearch, based on my anecdotal experience of dealing with the two? Do you have those answers yourself? As to the risk, a fair question. There's currently a threat that ES client libraries will reject a connection to OS (and I recall this has already been done for some languages). Not the end of the world but the only people who have lost out from the licensing spat you've alluded to are the users. The risks of onboarding Elastic as a new vendor or self-hosting are well known and part of the usual discussion of trade-offs one will have.
- acdha 5y ago
  You were making some absolute assertions, so yes, I would expect you to have some actual examples based on real experience. Asking you what homework you based that on wasn’t rhetoric but simply a question because I know multiple projects using OpenSearch who’ve had no problems other than Elastic sabotaging certain clients. It would be useful to know, for example, if there was a certain class of functionality or performance challenge where the difference is significant.