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I’ve used flash cards with Anki in the past for memorizing the IPA symbols, Swedish words, and a few other things. It worked pretty well. What I’ve realized re

I’ve used flash cards with Anki in the past for memorizing the IPA symbols, Swedish words, and a few other things. It worked pretty well. What I’ve realized recently while learning Rust (no Anki involved) is that, for me at least, new information needs something to “cling on” to. I wonder if this Spacing Effect is another facet of the same idea. My process with Rust was to first read most of The Book [0], and after this I had a decent understanding and I _thought_ I’d be able to write some code. The I tried (and mostly fumbled) writing some code. But it turned out I couldn’t remember much of the syntax, nor the finer details of how the borrowing system worked. Most of the stuff I’d read hadn’t really stuck. After some time coding I went back and reread parts of The Book that I was fuzzy on, and those things came into clearer focus, and I was able to get further with the code. The cycle repeated itself a few times - first with basic syntax, then with how to specify generic types, then with various ways I tangled myself up with the borrow checker, then lifetimes, then how to write iterators. With each stage I needed the sum of my previous experience PLUS another visit to either The Book or Programming Rust or some other explanation. Reading it all up front wasn’t good enough; ingesting the info needed to come at the right time. I’ve seen this a lot also with people learning to code (especially in the web dev world), where they’ll watch a whole course and then lament that they still can’t build anything on their own. I think it’s the same core issue: too much information-up-front with nothing for it to stick to. 0: https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/

colmvp 5y ago
Yeah my model of learning is like a game of ping pong where I go back and forth, reading some information, fumble with it, read it again, practice it again, etc. Until one day I wake up and realize the thing I found difficult to understand is now second nature. When I was a junior developer, I recall reading comments from other developers suggesting to extensively read docs before applying a library/language, but I find that reading without actively practicing results in lost knowledge because I don't really have anything for the knowledge to cling on to. It's akin to watering a field where you don't know where the seeds are.
malort 5y ago
The first versions of Anki (ca 2006) were based on spaced repetition algorithms developed for a piece of software called SuperMemo, which came out 21 years earlier in 1985 [0]. Piotr Wozniak, the author of SuperMemo, writes a lot about spaced repetition and memory in general. What you're describing are basically items 1 and 2 of his "Twenty rules of formulating knowledge" [1]: "Do not learn if you don't understand," and "Learn before you memorize." It's an extremely useful article if you're a heavy Anki user. 0: https://supermemo.guru/wiki/SuperMemo_Algorithm:_30-year-long_labor https://supermemo.guru/wiki/SuperMemo_Algorithm:_30-year-lon... 1: https://www.supermemo.com/en/archives1990-2015/articles/20rules https://www.supermemo.com/en/archives1990-2015/articles/20ru...
kaba0 5y ago
I think your mentioned examples fall clearly into two categories. Plain memorization and understanding. Spaced repetition (so in extension, anki) helps immensely with the former, but does very little for the latter. Eg. one could probably go through some advanced math anki deck, but would likely not get better in math at all. The second category (with math, as well as programming languages, but many hand crafty thing also) require practice and only that can help the process of learning here. Most study materials have aspects from both (medicine comes to mind, with immense amount of “trivia” plus the occasional logical correlations that one might argue are the most important), and I have been trying to write a program that could tackle this duality for years, but unfortunately it never got priority :/
adolph 5y ago
> What I’ve realized recently while learning Rust (no Anki involved) is that, for me at least, new information needs something to “cling on” to. I wonder if this Spacing Effect is another facet of the same idea. I think the concept you are looking for is "schema." In psychology and cognitive science, a schema (plural schemata or schemas) describes a pattern of thought or behavior that organizes categories of information and the relationships among them. It can also be described as a mental structure of preconceived ideas, a framework representing some aspect of the world, or a system of organizing and perceiving new information. Schemata influence attention and the absorption of new knowledge: people are more likely to notice things that fit into their schema, while re-interpreting contradictions to the schema as exceptions or distorting them to fit. Schemata have a tendency to remain unchanged, even in the face of contradictory information. Schemata can help in understanding the world and the rapidly changing environment. People can organize new perceptions into schemata quickly as most situations do not require complex thought when using schema, since automatic thought is all that is required. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schema_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schema_(psychology) See also "Memory Palace" or "Method of loci." It turns out the mental athletes were purposefully converting the information they were memorizing into images, and then placing these images into a mentally constructed “palace” — thus the involvement of visual memory and spatial navigation. https://fs.blog/the-memory-palace/ https://fs.blog/the-memory-palace/ Edit: I think schema is to spaced repetition what access is to storage. They are at their best when put together.
rkagerer 5y ago
I've found you have to need the information for it to stick.

colmvp 5y ago

Yeah my model of learning is like a game of ping pong where I go back and forth, reading some information, fumble with it, read it again, practice it again, etc. Until one day I wake up and realize the thing I found difficult to understand is now second nature. When I was a junior developer, I recall reading comments from other developers suggesting to extensively read docs before applying a library/language, but I find that reading without actively practicing results in lost knowledge because I don't really have anything for the knowledge to cling on to. It's akin to watering a field where you don't know where the seeds are.

malort 5y ago

The first versions of Anki (ca 2006) were based on spaced repetition algorithms developed for a piece of software called SuperMemo, which came out 21 years earlier in 1985 [0]. Piotr Wozniak, the author of SuperMemo, writes a lot about spaced repetition and memory in general. What you're describing are basically items 1 and 2 of his "Twenty rules of formulating knowledge" [1]: "Do not learn if you don't understand," and "Learn before you memorize." It's an extremely useful article if you're a heavy Anki user. 0: https://supermemo.guru/wiki/SuperMemo_Algorithm:_30-year-long_labor https://supermemo.guru/wiki/SuperMemo_Algorithm:_30-year-lon... 1: https://www.supermemo.com/en/archives1990-2015/articles/20rules https://www.supermemo.com/en/archives1990-2015/articles/20ru...

kaba0 5y ago

I think your mentioned examples fall clearly into two categories. Plain memorization and understanding. Spaced repetition (so in extension, anki) helps immensely with the former, but does very little for the latter. Eg. one could probably go through some advanced math anki deck, but would likely not get better in math at all. The second category (with math, as well as programming languages, but many hand crafty thing also) require practice and only that can help the process of learning here. Most study materials have aspects from both (medicine comes to mind, with immense amount of “trivia” plus the occasional logical correlations that one might argue are the most important), and I have been trying to write a program that could tackle this duality for years, but unfortunately it never got priority :/

adolph 5y ago

> What I’ve realized recently while learning Rust (no Anki involved) is that, for me at least, new information needs something to “cling on” to. I wonder if this Spacing Effect is another facet of the same idea. I think the concept you are looking for is "schema." In psychology and cognitive science, a schema (plural schemata or schemas) describes a pattern of thought or behavior that organizes categories of information and the relationships among them. It can also be described as a mental structure of preconceived ideas, a framework representing some aspect of the world, or a system of organizing and perceiving new information. Schemata influence attention and the absorption of new knowledge: people are more likely to notice things that fit into their schema, while re-interpreting contradictions to the schema as exceptions or distorting them to fit. Schemata have a tendency to remain unchanged, even in the face of contradictory information. Schemata can help in understanding the world and the rapidly changing environment. People can organize new perceptions into schemata quickly as most situations do not require complex thought when using schema, since automatic thought is all that is required. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schema_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schema_(psychology) See also "Memory Palace" or "Method of loci." It turns out the mental athletes were purposefully converting the information they were memorizing into images, and then placing these images into a mentally constructed “palace” — thus the involvement of visual memory and spatial navigation. https://fs.blog/the-memory-palace/ https://fs.blog/the-memory-palace/ Edit: I think schema is to spaced repetition what access is to storage. They are at their best when put together.

rkagerer 5y ago

I've found you have to need the information for it to stick.