3 ms·

I don't understand why the operation of the line wasn't tied to performance along certain metrics, like "percentage of cars at overcrowding", customer satisfact

I don't understand why the operation of the line wasn't tied to performance along certain metrics, like "percentage of cars at overcrowding", customer satisfaction, etc. Annual review, Drop below acceptable threshold on any of these metrics and it triggers a rebidding process and someone else gets to run the line.

Hokusai 5y ago
That makes sense, but it's a moving target. The company will optimize for the metrics at the cost of everything else. Private but paid by public funds is always a tricky place to fall into.
- dnautics 5y ago
  yeah, pick the metrics well. For something like public transport, you can probably pick effective metrics so that they can't really be goodhearted. Anyways, it seems to work for singapore (which of course has other incentives, like cars are super-disincentivised).
HarryHirsch 5y ago
In Britain the government solicits bids to run the trains, and what a shambles it is. For two months, the wife was commuting weekly between Cambridge and Edinburgh, and the train wasn't on time even once. And then we move to Edinburgh, also by train, and everyone gets to take the bus from Berwick onwards, because the engine of the previous train had actually caught on fire, blocking the tracks. It seems that with large, complex infrastructure even switching operators doesn't work, because with a switch you lose all the informal knowledge needed.
- inglor_cz 5y ago
  "and the train wasn't on time even once." Train delays are often caused by overloaded infrastructure, trains waiting on red because the line in front of them is occupied. Maybe the government didn't build enough tracks for contemporary commuter demand? Two tracks aren't enough on main commuter lines anymore. (The core of the issue is that once trains of differing speeds - e.g. regular trains that call at every station vs. expresses - share the same track, they will interfere with one another. This does not happen on subways, where every single train stops everywhere and never overtakes another train.)
lifthrasiir 5y ago
The canonical answer is of course the 1997 Asian financial crisis. The crisis greatly strained governmental and municipal budget available for pretty much every public infrastructure and the 1998 Act on Private Investment in Social Overhead Capital Facilities (사회간접자본시설에 대한 민간 투자법) was introduced to fill this gap. The problematic minimum revenue guarantee stems from this law, originally intended to encourage private investment, and while the law was subsequently fixed in 2006 many infra projects built around 2000 including the Seoul Subway Line 9 still suffer from its consequences.
- scaramanga 5y ago
  Was that part of IMF structural adjustments?
  - lifthrasiir 5y ago
    That is a common belief, yes, but I was unable to verify it from official documents, for example, the Letter of Intent of the government of Korea [1]. [1] https://www.imf.org/external/np/loi/120397.htm https://www.imf.org/external/np/loi/120397.htm

Hokusai 5y ago

That makes sense, but it's a moving target. The company will optimize for the metrics at the cost of everything else. Private but paid by public funds is always a tricky place to fall into.

dnautics 5y ago
yeah, pick the metrics well. For something like public transport, you can probably pick effective metrics so that they can't really be goodhearted. Anyways, it seems to work for singapore (which of course has other incentives, like cars are super-disincentivised).

HarryHirsch 5y ago

In Britain the government solicits bids to run the trains, and what a shambles it is. For two months, the wife was commuting weekly between Cambridge and Edinburgh, and the train wasn't on time even once. And then we move to Edinburgh, also by train, and everyone gets to take the bus from Berwick onwards, because the engine of the previous train had actually caught on fire, blocking the tracks. It seems that with large, complex infrastructure even switching operators doesn't work, because with a switch you lose all the informal knowledge needed.

inglor_cz 5y ago
"and the train wasn't on time even once." Train delays are often caused by overloaded infrastructure, trains waiting on red because the line in front of them is occupied. Maybe the government didn't build enough tracks for contemporary commuter demand? Two tracks aren't enough on main commuter lines anymore. (The core of the issue is that once trains of differing speeds - e.g. regular trains that call at every station vs. expresses - share the same track, they will interfere with one another. This does not happen on subways, where every single train stops everywhere and never overtakes another train.)

lifthrasiir 5y ago

The canonical answer is of course the 1997 Asian financial crisis. The crisis greatly strained governmental and municipal budget available for pretty much every public infrastructure and the 1998 Act on Private Investment in Social Overhead Capital Facilities (사회간접자본시설에 대한 민간 투자법) was introduced to fill this gap. The problematic minimum revenue guarantee stems from this law, originally intended to encourage private investment, and while the law was subsequently fixed in 2006 many infra projects built around 2000 including the Seoul Subway Line 9 still suffer from its consequences.

scaramanga 5y ago
Was that part of IMF structural adjustments?
- lifthrasiir 5y ago
  That is a common belief, yes, but I was unable to verify it from official documents, for example, the Letter of Intent of the government of Korea [1]. [1] https://www.imf.org/external/np/loi/120397.htm https://www.imf.org/external/np/loi/120397.htm