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He starts off with the presumption that having a mechanical drivetrain is an abomination, rather than an asset. For many, being able to pedal, but not being re

He starts off with the presumption that having a mechanical drivetrain is an abomination, rather than an asset. For many, being able to pedal, but not being required to pedal all the time, is one of the main reasons to use an e-bike in the first place. There are little cars and golf carts that could otherwise replace bikes. And as far as the tires - get Kevlar tires. They have tremendous range and it's cheaper than the tires you save, even ignoring the time and hassle of switching tires on an ebike. It adds some drag, but nothing that you feel.

zik 5y ago
One of the more enjoyable aspects of riding a bike is the direct connection you have between your legs and your motion. Many e-bikes just add power to whatever you're doing but the more premium e-bikes often use the Bosch system which uses crank torque sensors to provide a more direct feeling of control over the bike. Separating the cranks entirely from the drive seems like the exact opposite approach to me - without a direct physical connection between the cranks and the drive I imagine it'd feel spongy and unresponsive to a rider. I don't think people would enjoy riding a bike like that.
- johnwalkr 5y ago
  I agree. Also, in many jurisdictions, e-bikes cannot have a throttle and must only add power to pedaling to qualify as a bike and not a vehicle that requires a license. And the FreeDrive thing linked looks like a $1000+ component by itself, and bills itself as allowing new bicycle architectures. Most press about it is about high-end cargo bikes. I don't find its existence very compelling as support of the author's claims.
- touisteur 5y ago
  I can attest the shimano 'steps' and bosch equivalent systems feel very different from 'older' systems. They start helping almost as you put force on the pedal, so e.g. when stop/starting on a hill with 50kg cargo (twin girls or cement bag) it makes a huge difference. The difference between the adhoc 'power on front wheel' and the integrated ones is night and day in comfort. Maintenance is more complicated, but if you're using this as you main vehicle (we don't have a car) you can maybe set aside a small (200-300eur) yearly professional maintenance budget. I'll admit I can't do it myself.
- oriolid 5y ago
  > One of the more enjoyable aspects of riding a bike is the direct connection you have between your legs and your motion. Also, one of the least enjoyable aspects of cheap stationary exercise bikes is the need to push the pedals over the dead spots. On real bikes most of the power comes from pushing down and inertia helps with the rest of the pedal rotation. Spinning bikes have heavy flywheels to work around the problem but I wouldn't expect them to work on an actual bike.
  - Dave_Rosenthal 5y ago
    This is a great point about a potential downside of the 'Free Drive' decoupled crank concept. By decoupling you also get rid of the coupled inertia of the bike/rider and petaling becomes weirdly inertia free which most people really dislike. Though I guess with very sophisticated sensing and control algorithms you can in theory emulate inertia. I wonder if they try to do that? Would be a cool project.
    - oriolid 5y ago
      I guess they could adjust the generator somehow, but the response would have to be really immediate. I think I could adjust to something that feels like rubber band instead of chain, but varying speed over pedal stroke sounds bad. Yes, I know that some people swear by elliptic chainrings. I had Biopace rings back in the day and didn't really like them even though the effect was quite small.
mft_ 5y ago
1) The author’s whole approach is to optimise the current ebike concept/approach for simplicity and cost. With this being the focus, his argument is entirely valid. In a future world where his ideas resulted in $500 ebike, you’d be free to choose a more expensive option that gave you the intermittent feeling of pedalling you say you require. Others could choose otherwise. 2) Bikes are a very different prospect to small cars and golf carts - size, weight, functionality, cost, legal status, use-cases, etc. There’s a vast difference between an ebike optimised as the author proposes, and a small car - this is a really odd comparison! 3) I’m not aware of Kevlar being used in bike tyres other than a) replacing the steel bead, or b) offering additional puncture resistance underneath the rubber tread. Is there another use that offers the greater wear resistance?
- taken_every_ 5y ago
  On 3), I've worn my Schwalbe marathons down to the kevlar layer, probably more than 10000km. No issues so far. I recently heard a clicking noise while riding, turns out there was a huge glass shard stuck in it. No problem after pulling it out. Not to sound like an ad, competitors probably have similar performance now
  - mkl 5y ago
    OTOH, I got a nail right through one of my Schwalbe Marathons at ~1500km.
    - alexmorley 5y ago
      The marathon plus's are quite a bit more durable IME. And my sister and brother in law literally cycled fron UK -> singapore without a single puncture between them.
      - digisign 5y ago
        Any blog posts from the trip?
      - mkl 5y ago
tonyedgecombe 5y ago
>For many, being able to pedal, but not being required to pedal all the time, is one of the main reasons to use an e-bike in the first place. All the e-bikes sold in Europe are pedelecs, they require you to pedal, there is no throttle.
kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago
He means that instead of driving the bicycle mechanically, you could just power the electric motor directly by pedalling. So you would still have to pedal. I think it is a very interesting thought.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
throw0101a 5y ago
> For many, being able to pedal, but not being required to pedal all the time, is one of the main reasons to use an e-bike in the first place. IMHO if you're not pedalling it is no longer a "bicycle", it is some other class of vehicle (e-scooter?). I have no problem with e-bikes providing a boost, but if you're not doing the work then it should be treated differently. EU 2002/24/EC sounds reasonable: > Cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of 0.25 kW, of which the output is progressively reduced and finally cut off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 25 km/h (16 mph) or if the cyclist stops pedaling. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#Europe There are a lot "e-bikes" where I live where are token pedals on the machine to make it "self-propelled", but folks simply use the e-motor and zip along quite quickly. They require no licensing and no insurance AFAICT. As someone who has a motorcycle license, and had to do a bunch of training and get insurance I see folks on these things as no different to my if I were on a 125cc or 250cc motorcycle/scooter. I'm happy to have these types of vehicles enter the mix of transportation modes (and hopefully reduce automobile use), but I think the following are needed for e-scooters (née e-bikes): * a drivers license (like in the EU, where a Category B car license also grants an AM (≤125cc; ≤11kW) license as well) * some kind of insurance: an add-on rider/paragraph on one's existing car insurance, or a e-scooter policy
- raffraffraff 5y ago
  In Ireland cops don't bother to enforce the EU law. I've encountered 10 year old kids doing max speed on e-scooters on the pavement (sidewalk to you Americans). There also seem to be lots of pretend-pedelecs that require no pedaling, and they're not legal without a licence and (I think) licence plates.
  - cianmm 5y ago
    I just want to know where they’re getting these things. Is there some dodgy bike shop which sells the bike and then sneakily delimits it under the counter?
    - 5y ago
Markoff 5y ago
more importantly ebike with pedals does not require license, while pedalless ebike would already require driving license in many European countries, so they would be out of reach for many users, these users buy ebike because they cant buy cheap motorbike

zik 5y ago

One of the more enjoyable aspects of riding a bike is the direct connection you have between your legs and your motion. Many e-bikes just add power to whatever you're doing but the more premium e-bikes often use the Bosch system which uses crank torque sensors to provide a more direct feeling of control over the bike. Separating the cranks entirely from the drive seems like the exact opposite approach to me - without a direct physical connection between the cranks and the drive I imagine it'd feel spongy and unresponsive to a rider. I don't think people would enjoy riding a bike like that.

johnwalkr 5y ago
I agree. Also, in many jurisdictions, e-bikes cannot have a throttle and must only add power to pedaling to qualify as a bike and not a vehicle that requires a license. And the FreeDrive thing linked looks like a $1000+ component by itself, and bills itself as allowing new bicycle architectures. Most press about it is about high-end cargo bikes. I don't find its existence very compelling as support of the author's claims.
touisteur 5y ago
I can attest the shimano 'steps' and bosch equivalent systems feel very different from 'older' systems. They start helping almost as you put force on the pedal, so e.g. when stop/starting on a hill with 50kg cargo (twin girls or cement bag) it makes a huge difference. The difference between the adhoc 'power on front wheel' and the integrated ones is night and day in comfort. Maintenance is more complicated, but if you're using this as you main vehicle (we don't have a car) you can maybe set aside a small (200-300eur) yearly professional maintenance budget. I'll admit I can't do it myself.
oriolid 5y ago
> One of the more enjoyable aspects of riding a bike is the direct connection you have between your legs and your motion. Also, one of the least enjoyable aspects of cheap stationary exercise bikes is the need to push the pedals over the dead spots. On real bikes most of the power comes from pushing down and inertia helps with the rest of the pedal rotation. Spinning bikes have heavy flywheels to work around the problem but I wouldn't expect them to work on an actual bike.
- Dave_Rosenthal 5y ago
  This is a great point about a potential downside of the 'Free Drive' decoupled crank concept. By decoupling you also get rid of the coupled inertia of the bike/rider and petaling becomes weirdly inertia free which most people really dislike. Though I guess with very sophisticated sensing and control algorithms you can in theory emulate inertia. I wonder if they try to do that? Would be a cool project.
  - oriolid 5y ago
    I guess they could adjust the generator somehow, but the response would have to be really immediate. I think I could adjust to something that feels like rubber band instead of chain, but varying speed over pedal stroke sounds bad. Yes, I know that some people swear by elliptic chainrings. I had Biopace rings back in the day and didn't really like them even though the effect was quite small.

mft_ 5y ago

1) The author’s whole approach is to optimise the current ebike concept/approach for simplicity and cost. With this being the focus, his argument is entirely valid. In a future world where his ideas resulted in $500 ebike, you’d be free to choose a more expensive option that gave you the intermittent feeling of pedalling you say you require. Others could choose otherwise. 2) Bikes are a very different prospect to small cars and golf carts - size, weight, functionality, cost, legal status, use-cases, etc. There’s a vast difference between an ebike optimised as the author proposes, and a small car - this is a really odd comparison! 3) I’m not aware of Kevlar being used in bike tyres other than a) replacing the steel bead, or b) offering additional puncture resistance underneath the rubber tread. Is there another use that offers the greater wear resistance?

taken_every_ 5y ago
On 3), I've worn my Schwalbe marathons down to the kevlar layer, probably more than 10000km. No issues so far. I recently heard a clicking noise while riding, turns out there was a huge glass shard stuck in it. No problem after pulling it out. Not to sound like an ad, competitors probably have similar performance now
- mkl 5y ago
  OTOH, I got a nail right through one of my Schwalbe Marathons at ~1500km.
  - alexmorley 5y ago
    The marathon plus's are quite a bit more durable IME. And my sister and brother in law literally cycled fron UK -> singapore without a single puncture between them.
    - digisign 5y ago
      Any blog posts from the trip?
    - mkl 5y ago

tonyedgecombe 5y ago

>For many, being able to pedal, but not being required to pedal all the time, is one of the main reasons to use an e-bike in the first place. All the e-bikes sold in Europe are pedelecs, they require you to pedal, there is no throttle.

kkjjkgjjgg 5y ago

He means that instead of driving the bicycle mechanically, you could just power the electric motor directly by pedalling. So you would still have to pedal. I think it is a very interesting thought.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

throw0101a 5y ago

> For many, being able to pedal, but not being required to pedal all the time, is one of the main reasons to use an e-bike in the first place. IMHO if you're not pedalling it is no longer a "bicycle", it is some other class of vehicle (e-scooter?). I have no problem with e-bikes providing a boost, but if you're not doing the work then it should be treated differently. EU 2002/24/EC sounds reasonable: > Cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of 0.25 kW, of which the output is progressively reduced and finally cut off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 25 km/h (16 mph) or if the cyclist stops pedaling. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#Europe There are a lot "e-bikes" where I live where are token pedals on the machine to make it "self-propelled", but folks simply use the e-motor and zip along quite quickly. They require no licensing and no insurance AFAICT. As someone who has a motorcycle license, and had to do a bunch of training and get insurance I see folks on these things as no different to my if I were on a 125cc or 250cc motorcycle/scooter. I'm happy to have these types of vehicles enter the mix of transportation modes (and hopefully reduce automobile use), but I think the following are needed for e-scooters (née e-bikes): * a drivers license (like in the EU, where a Category B car license also grants an AM (≤125cc; ≤11kW) license as well) * some kind of insurance: an add-on rider/paragraph on one's existing car insurance, or a e-scooter policy

raffraffraff 5y ago
In Ireland cops don't bother to enforce the EU law. I've encountered 10 year old kids doing max speed on e-scooters on the pavement (sidewalk to you Americans). There also seem to be lots of pretend-pedelecs that require no pedaling, and they're not legal without a licence and (I think) licence plates.
- cianmm 5y ago
  I just want to know where they’re getting these things. Is there some dodgy bike shop which sells the bike and then sneakily delimits it under the counter?
  - 5y ago

Markoff 5y ago

more importantly ebike with pedals does not require license, while pedalless ebike would already require driving license in many European countries, so they would be out of reach for many users, these users buy ebike because they cant buy cheap motorbike