5 ms·

Coke CEO sees a can of pop served alongside each meal.

by version_five 5y ago

BoorishBears 5y ago
rather than 2 cans every hour? Boosters are currently around 6 months, a yearly shot is fewer vaccines
- version_five 5y ago
  My point is the person selling the thing should not be considered the authority on how often you buy it.
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    Immunity has seemed to wane every 3 to 6 months. Is that not certain? Florida's big Delta-surge was just in August. And yet, Omicron surged through January in the state. In just 5 months, people's natural immunity has collectively declined to the point for a new surge. There's a theory that repeatedly catching COVID19 will eventually make our immune systems stronger each time and time again. But until then, repeated boosters seem like the answer (especially if the booster is as good as, or even better, at building immunity).
    - ostenning 5y ago
      > But until then, repeated boosters seem like the answer I think this sort of group think mentality is increasingly detrimental. I keep hearing that “we need to boost” without people really weighing up the nuances and tradeoffs for such a policy. The reality is Israel has shown that second boosters don’t really improve immunity all that much [1] That vaccine induced myocarditis rates are now higher than covid induced rates [2] That healthy people statistically are less likely to have serious disease, especially so if they have had primary vaccination and that modelling suggests that the omicron wave in the west will be on the downtrend, following the UK, shortly. Inferring that most people will have been exposed to the virus and built their own immunity [3]. So given this information, and considering I had an adverse reaction from my vaccination, why would I listen to this idea that “boosters are the answer” when there is mounting evidence everywhere that this maybe isn't a good idea for everyone? We need to shake this idea that they are the only sensible answer because they have had real costs for some people. [1] - https://www.israel21c.org/israel-finds-4th-vaccine-dose-not-as-effective-vs-omicron/ https://www.israel21c.org/israel-finds-4th-vaccine-dose-not-... [2] - https://youtu.be/xzVoS-1TIWI https://youtu.be/xzVoS-1TIWI [3] - https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/uk-daily-new-covid-cases https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/uk-daily-new-covid-cases
      - dragontamer 5y ago
        > That vaccine induced myocarditis rates are now higher than covid induced rates Are you factoring in the fact that myocarditis drops with more boosters? The 2nd shot has the highest myocarditis rate. The 3rd shot has less, and I'd expect the 4th to have even less. As long as side-effects drop more than the boosters help (especially if boosters are reformulated for the dominant COVID19 strain), then the total cost of boosting is what? $20 or so? https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-11-19/04-COVID-Shimabukuro-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-... EDIT: Wrong pdf. I meant this one: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-11-19/06-COVID-Oliver-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-... > The reality is Israel has shown that second boosters don’t really improve immunity all that much [1] Have you factored in the fact that all mRNA producers are making Omicron-specific boosters? Of course not, those boosters aren't available yet. > So given this information, and considering I had an adverse reaction from my vaccination, why would I listen to this idea that “boosters are the answer” when there is mounting evidence everywhere that this maybe isn't a good idea for everyone? Its a very simple question. COVID19 damage prevented vs vaccine damage caused. If the vaccine causes more damage, we don't boost. If COVID19 causes more damage, we boost. At every step of the booster-question, we revise and double check. The 3rd shot was overwhelmingly a benefit vs Delta and Omicron. 4th shot is under initial studies. Any other methodology is politics. We have more than enough capability to study things like the 4th shot before recommending it to everybody. But my expectations, given the science and the future manufacturing of these things is that a 4th shot will be necessary, and will probably be of benefit.
        ostenning 5y ago
        > Are you factoring in the fact that myocarditis drops with more boosters? Myocarditis rates have quantifiably increased over time as more data comes in. Why would you make assumptions that a booster of the same substance would be any different? > then the total cost of boosting is what? $20 or so? I find this a very strange and borderline inappropriate thing to ask. I can assure you if you have heart problems you, like me, will have to spend thousands on MRIs, CT scans and specialists. > Have you factored in the fact that all mRNA producers are making Omicron-specific boosters? Of course not, those boosters aren't available yet. What do you mean “of course not”? Yes, thats exactly what im saying, we are boosting with old vaccines, because thats the only thing we are told to do. > Any other methodology is politics. That statement basically reinforces my initial point again, why would Pfizers new antiviral drug with over 90% efficacy be considered as “politics” in your mind? Why would the very obvious natural immunity the UK is starting to attain be classified as “politics”? The only political, myopic stance here is yours: “repeated boosters seem like the answer”.
    - peakaboo 5y ago
      If you need the vaccines to get immunity, why haven't most people who never vaccinated died or ended up in hospitals?
  - BoorishBears 5y ago
    What on earth are you talking about? Did you read the article? He's talking about the offerings Pfizer is expecting to have. Pfizer is expecting to have a yearly vaccine rather than a frequent booster for sale. - The people making the thing are sharing their expectations on what they have to offer, there's nothing clever or relevant about your analogy. We've reached the point where any empty display of cynicism is seen as weighty as long as it goes against the "COVID establishment"...
- nojokes 5y ago
  Boosters are not currently around 6 months. Can you get second booster now? Nope, even when you got yours 6 months ago. Pfizer CEO also for sure is well aware that his companies vaccine did not make any meaningful difference after 4th shot against omicron and better strategy would be to make a strain specific vaccine. I am not sure if this could be feasible. Omicron pushed through the world like wildfire. There was no meaningful time to produce or even develop a vaccine before it was already everywhere and circulating deep in community. Omicron was very different from the cluster of previous variants. When something pops up from another direction like this then there would be probably no meaningful time to react to it. Perhaps a little too pessimistic view. Maybe set of multiple antigenes from the cluster outer ring does the job or a vaccine against inner machinery of the virus - this should be more stable in time.
cft 5y ago
And mandatory too?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- tinus_hn 5y ago
  For an answer, please drink verification can

Coke CEO sees a can of pop served alongside each meal.

BoorishBears 5y ago

rather than 2 cans every hour? Boosters are currently around 6 months, a yearly shot is fewer vaccines

version_five 5y ago
My point is the person selling the thing should not be considered the authority on how often you buy it.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  Immunity has seemed to wane every 3 to 6 months. Is that not certain? Florida's big Delta-surge was just in August. And yet, Omicron surged through January in the state. In just 5 months, people's natural immunity has collectively declined to the point for a new surge. There's a theory that repeatedly catching COVID19 will eventually make our immune systems stronger each time and time again. But until then, repeated boosters seem like the answer (especially if the booster is as good as, or even better, at building immunity).
  - ostenning 5y ago
    > But until then, repeated boosters seem like the answer I think this sort of group think mentality is increasingly detrimental. I keep hearing that “we need to boost” without people really weighing up the nuances and tradeoffs for such a policy. The reality is Israel has shown that second boosters don’t really improve immunity all that much [1] That vaccine induced myocarditis rates are now higher than covid induced rates [2] That healthy people statistically are less likely to have serious disease, especially so if they have had primary vaccination and that modelling suggests that the omicron wave in the west will be on the downtrend, following the UK, shortly. Inferring that most people will have been exposed to the virus and built their own immunity [3]. So given this information, and considering I had an adverse reaction from my vaccination, why would I listen to this idea that “boosters are the answer” when there is mounting evidence everywhere that this maybe isn't a good idea for everyone? We need to shake this idea that they are the only sensible answer because they have had real costs for some people. [1] - https://www.israel21c.org/israel-finds-4th-vaccine-dose-not-as-effective-vs-omicron/ https://www.israel21c.org/israel-finds-4th-vaccine-dose-not-... [2] - https://youtu.be/xzVoS-1TIWI https://youtu.be/xzVoS-1TIWI [3] - https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/uk-daily-new-covid-cases https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/uk-daily-new-covid-cases
    - dragontamer 5y ago
      > That vaccine induced myocarditis rates are now higher than covid induced rates Are you factoring in the fact that myocarditis drops with more boosters? The 2nd shot has the highest myocarditis rate. The 3rd shot has less, and I'd expect the 4th to have even less. As long as side-effects drop more than the boosters help (especially if boosters are reformulated for the dominant COVID19 strain), then the total cost of boosting is what? $20 or so? https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-11-19/04-COVID-Shimabukuro-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-... EDIT: Wrong pdf. I meant this one: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-11-19/06-COVID-Oliver-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-... > The reality is Israel has shown that second boosters don’t really improve immunity all that much [1] Have you factored in the fact that all mRNA producers are making Omicron-specific boosters? Of course not, those boosters aren't available yet. > So given this information, and considering I had an adverse reaction from my vaccination, why would I listen to this idea that “boosters are the answer” when there is mounting evidence everywhere that this maybe isn't a good idea for everyone? Its a very simple question. COVID19 damage prevented vs vaccine damage caused. If the vaccine causes more damage, we don't boost. If COVID19 causes more damage, we boost. At every step of the booster-question, we revise and double check. The 3rd shot was overwhelmingly a benefit vs Delta and Omicron. 4th shot is under initial studies. Any other methodology is politics. We have more than enough capability to study things like the 4th shot before recommending it to everybody. But my expectations, given the science and the future manufacturing of these things is that a 4th shot will be necessary, and will probably be of benefit.
      - ostenning 5y ago
        > Are you factoring in the fact that myocarditis drops with more boosters? Myocarditis rates have quantifiably increased over time as more data comes in. Why would you make assumptions that a booster of the same substance would be any different? > then the total cost of boosting is what? $20 or so? I find this a very strange and borderline inappropriate thing to ask. I can assure you if you have heart problems you, like me, will have to spend thousands on MRIs, CT scans and specialists. > Have you factored in the fact that all mRNA producers are making Omicron-specific boosters? Of course not, those boosters aren't available yet. What do you mean “of course not”? Yes, thats exactly what im saying, we are boosting with old vaccines, because thats the only thing we are told to do. > Any other methodology is politics. That statement basically reinforces my initial point again, why would Pfizers new antiviral drug with over 90% efficacy be considered as “politics” in your mind? Why would the very obvious natural immunity the UK is starting to attain be classified as “politics”? The only political, myopic stance here is yours: “repeated boosters seem like the answer”.
  - peakaboo 5y ago
    If you need the vaccines to get immunity, why haven't most people who never vaccinated died or ended up in hospitals?
- BoorishBears 5y ago
  What on earth are you talking about? Did you read the article? He's talking about the offerings Pfizer is expecting to have. Pfizer is expecting to have a yearly vaccine rather than a frequent booster for sale. - The people making the thing are sharing their expectations on what they have to offer, there's nothing clever or relevant about your analogy. We've reached the point where any empty display of cynicism is seen as weighty as long as it goes against the "COVID establishment"...
nojokes 5y ago
Boosters are not currently around 6 months. Can you get second booster now? Nope, even when you got yours 6 months ago. Pfizer CEO also for sure is well aware that his companies vaccine did not make any meaningful difference after 4th shot against omicron and better strategy would be to make a strain specific vaccine. I am not sure if this could be feasible. Omicron pushed through the world like wildfire. There was no meaningful time to produce or even develop a vaccine before it was already everywhere and circulating deep in community. Omicron was very different from the cluster of previous variants. When something pops up from another direction like this then there would be probably no meaningful time to react to it. Perhaps a little too pessimistic view. Maybe set of multiple antigenes from the cluster outer ring does the job or a vaccine against inner machinery of the virus - this should be more stable in time.

cft 5y ago

And mandatory too?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
tinus_hn 5y ago
For an answer, please drink verification can