5 ms·

I understand the point you're trying to make, but transportation cost is not really a relevant point here. Food of any variety can be locally produced, or it c

I understand the point you're trying to make, but transportation cost is not really a relevant point here. Food of any variety can be locally produced, or it can be sourced through industrial supply chains. Animal and plant products can both have an embedded cost in terms of carbon emissions, water, and usage of arable land. That is to say, a cow, a chicken, and a bunch of potatoes can all be locally sourced, and the costs of production for the cow are going to be much higher. Moreover, the food we "evolved to thrive on," was likely primarily nuts, seeds, fruits, insects, rodents, and occasionally larger animals like antelope (which would have been eaten nose-to-tail), not fatty steaks from domesticated animals.

1_player 5y ago
> Moreover, the food we "evolved to thrive on," was likely primarily nuts, seeds, fruits, insects, rodents, and occasionally larger animals like antelope (which would have been eaten nose-to-tail), not fatty steaks from domesticated animals. Citation needed. My sources mention the fact that we've evolved bigger brains when we've moved from low-density foods such as vegetables to high-density fatty foods, which is what distinguishes our diet from what primates eat. Meat is fatty, vegetables are not. In fact, vegetables are "fatty" for ruminants, as they have specialised bacteria that convert plant matter to fatty acids. We do not. https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/evidence-for-meat-eating-by-early-humans-103874273/ https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/evidence-f... https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fat-not-meat-may-have-led-to-bigger-hominin-brains/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fat-not-meat-may-... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK53561/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK53561/ Just a couple articles from a 30 second Google search. The fat == bad, or worse, meat == bad is a modern argument that has nothing to do with our evolution or our physiology. Here's the thing no one wants to admit: modern meat is bad for the planet, and we humans thrive on meat. We don't know how to reconcile the two, so we keep promoting and pushing towards worse and worse diets. Sorry, a vegan diet for everybody isn't the answer. There is no simple answer.
- paulcole 5y ago
  > Sorry, a vegan diet for everybody isn't the answer 0% of people in this thread suggested a vegan diet for everybody other than you. I specifically said reduce steak consumption to a few times per year — it’s less than the least you should do, but if you can’t do that, then will you actually do anything? Hope the people 3 generations from now like eating bugs!
  - 1_player 5y ago
    If the goal is reduction, the target is total reduction, no? Going vegetarian and consuming eggs and cheese still makes use of these darned animals that keep polluting our atmosphere. The suggestion of vegan diet is implied in this context. Personally I hope insect protein becomes more widespread, makes more sense to me nutritionally than completely avoiding animal nutrients for chemical vegetable pastes people want to promote as meat substitute these days.
    - paulcole 5y ago
      > If the goal is reduction, the target is total reduction, no I like to wear shorts more than I like to wear pants. So I wear shorts on the weekend because I can’t wear shorts to work. My goal is pants reduction because total pants reduction is infeasible. So no, reduction of meat consumption today isn’t implying that total veganism is the goal. Also, are you eating much insect protein yourself or are you more hoping other people will do it one day?
      - 1_player 5y ago
        > Also, are you eating much insect protein yourself or are you more hoping other people will do it one day? The latter. The only insect protein I can find for human consumption is far more expensive than the pasture-raised organic meat I primarily eat. Sadly, I'm too used to modern Western cuisine to stomach eating an insect that hasn't been ground down to fine powder, but I will definitely buy some if/when prices are more reasonable.

1_player 5y ago

> Moreover, the food we "evolved to thrive on," was likely primarily nuts, seeds, fruits, insects, rodents, and occasionally larger animals like antelope (which would have been eaten nose-to-tail), not fatty steaks from domesticated animals. Citation needed. My sources mention the fact that we've evolved bigger brains when we've moved from low-density foods such as vegetables to high-density fatty foods, which is what distinguishes our diet from what primates eat. Meat is fatty, vegetables are not. In fact, vegetables are "fatty" for ruminants, as they have specialised bacteria that convert plant matter to fatty acids. We do not. https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/evidence-for-meat-eating-by-early-humans-103874273/ https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/evidence-f... https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fat-not-meat-may-have-led-to-bigger-hominin-brains/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fat-not-meat-may-... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK53561/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK53561/ Just a couple articles from a 30 second Google search. The fat == bad, or worse, meat == bad is a modern argument that has nothing to do with our evolution or our physiology. Here's the thing no one wants to admit: modern meat is bad for the planet, and we humans thrive on meat. We don't know how to reconcile the two, so we keep promoting and pushing towards worse and worse diets. Sorry, a vegan diet for everybody isn't the answer. There is no simple answer.

paulcole 5y ago
> Sorry, a vegan diet for everybody isn't the answer 0% of people in this thread suggested a vegan diet for everybody other than you. I specifically said reduce steak consumption to a few times per year — it’s less than the least you should do, but if you can’t do that, then will you actually do anything? Hope the people 3 generations from now like eating bugs!
- 1_player 5y ago
  If the goal is reduction, the target is total reduction, no? Going vegetarian and consuming eggs and cheese still makes use of these darned animals that keep polluting our atmosphere. The suggestion of vegan diet is implied in this context. Personally I hope insect protein becomes more widespread, makes more sense to me nutritionally than completely avoiding animal nutrients for chemical vegetable pastes people want to promote as meat substitute these days.
  - paulcole 5y ago
    > If the goal is reduction, the target is total reduction, no I like to wear shorts more than I like to wear pants. So I wear shorts on the weekend because I can’t wear shorts to work. My goal is pants reduction because total pants reduction is infeasible. So no, reduction of meat consumption today isn’t implying that total veganism is the goal. Also, are you eating much insect protein yourself or are you more hoping other people will do it one day?
    - 1_player 5y ago
      > Also, are you eating much insect protein yourself or are you more hoping other people will do it one day? The latter. The only insect protein I can find for human consumption is far more expensive than the pasture-raised organic meat I primarily eat. Sadly, I'm too used to modern Western cuisine to stomach eating an insect that hasn't been ground down to fine powder, but I will definitely buy some if/when prices are more reasonable.