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And considerably smaller carbon footprint than industrial emission and cars. The vegetables and grains grown 5000 miles away are being brought via land and sea

And considerably smaller carbon footprint than industrial emission and cars. The vegetables and grains grown 5000 miles away are being brought via land and sea thanks to petrol right to the vegan store one goes to shop at with their SUV. But yes, let's demonise the food we've evolved to thrive on. It's mental that this has become a controversial idea worth censoring.

paulcole 5y ago
> And considerably smaller carbon footprint than industrial emission and cars Yes, I am recommending people reduce their addiction to cars as well. But honestly, planet is likely a lost cause for humanity, so “Let them eat steak!” I guess. And if you think humanity is thriving today, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
enruwhuy 5y ago
Transportation overall is a huge emitter. Transportation of most food is only a very small part of that food’s emissions, from what I understand: “GHG emissions from transportation make up a very small amount of the emissions from food and what you eat is far more important than where your food traveled from.” (Source: https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local)
valgor 5y ago
We still need cars, but we don't need meat. And there are people working on reducing transportation and energy emissions because that is a hard problem. Buying beans instead of meat at the grocery store is not a hard problem, and one any of us can immediately do. And if you are worried about plant matter and all the land used for it and transportation emissions around it, what do you think the major of animals eat? They are confined to sheds, not green pastures. They eat plants shipped to the farms, and they eat a hell of a lot more than humans do. Eating the animal means we take a fraction of the total calories the animal consumes. It is completely inefficient. More here: https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local No one denies we evolved eating meat. But that is the pasted. We can do better in the future. "Tradition" is a word worth censoring.
- cheese_goddess 5y ago
  > We still need cars, but we don't need meat. You're saying, we should change the way we eat so we can keep our cars? > Buying beans instead of meat at the grocery store is not a hard problem, and one any of us can immediately do. Buying beans and then buying supplements also because you can't live only on beans, or plants. You need to supplement minerals and nutrients that you can't get from plants. Or you can eat a balanced diet that includes meat, eggs or dairy along with mostly plants and not expose yourself to the danger of malnutrition.
jmknoll 5y ago
I understand the point you're trying to make, but transportation cost is not really a relevant point here. Food of any variety can be locally produced, or it can be sourced through industrial supply chains. Animal and plant products can both have an embedded cost in terms of carbon emissions, water, and usage of arable land. That is to say, a cow, a chicken, and a bunch of potatoes can all be locally sourced, and the costs of production for the cow are going to be much higher. Moreover, the food we "evolved to thrive on," was likely primarily nuts, seeds, fruits, insects, rodents, and occasionally larger animals like antelope (which would have been eaten nose-to-tail), not fatty steaks from domesticated animals.
- 1_player 5y ago
  > Moreover, the food we "evolved to thrive on," was likely primarily nuts, seeds, fruits, insects, rodents, and occasionally larger animals like antelope (which would have been eaten nose-to-tail), not fatty steaks from domesticated animals. Citation needed. My sources mention the fact that we've evolved bigger brains when we've moved from low-density foods such as vegetables to high-density fatty foods, which is what distinguishes our diet from what primates eat. Meat is fatty, vegetables are not. In fact, vegetables are "fatty" for ruminants, as they have specialised bacteria that convert plant matter to fatty acids. We do not. https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/evidence-for-meat-eating-by-early-humans-103874273/ https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/evidence-f... https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fat-not-meat-may-have-led-to-bigger-hominin-brains/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fat-not-meat-may-... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK53561/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK53561/ Just a couple articles from a 30 second Google search. The fat == bad, or worse, meat == bad is a modern argument that has nothing to do with our evolution or our physiology. Here's the thing no one wants to admit: modern meat is bad for the planet, and we humans thrive on meat. We don't know how to reconcile the two, so we keep promoting and pushing towards worse and worse diets. Sorry, a vegan diet for everybody isn't the answer. There is no simple answer.
  - paulcole 5y ago
    > Sorry, a vegan diet for everybody isn't the answer 0% of people in this thread suggested a vegan diet for everybody other than you. I specifically said reduce steak consumption to a few times per year — it’s less than the least you should do, but if you can’t do that, then will you actually do anything? Hope the people 3 generations from now like eating bugs!

paulcole 5y ago

> And considerably smaller carbon footprint than industrial emission and cars Yes, I am recommending people reduce their addiction to cars as well. But honestly, planet is likely a lost cause for humanity, so “Let them eat steak!” I guess. And if you think humanity is thriving today, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

enruwhuy 5y ago

Transportation overall is a huge emitter. Transportation of most food is only a very small part of that food’s emissions, from what I understand: “GHG emissions from transportation make up a very small amount of the emissions from food and what you eat is far more important than where your food traveled from.” (Source: https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local)

valgor 5y ago

We still need cars, but we don't need meat. And there are people working on reducing transportation and energy emissions because that is a hard problem. Buying beans instead of meat at the grocery store is not a hard problem, and one any of us can immediately do. And if you are worried about plant matter and all the land used for it and transportation emissions around it, what do you think the major of animals eat? They are confined to sheds, not green pastures. They eat plants shipped to the farms, and they eat a hell of a lot more than humans do. Eating the animal means we take a fraction of the total calories the animal consumes. It is completely inefficient. More here: https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local No one denies we evolved eating meat. But that is the pasted. We can do better in the future. "Tradition" is a word worth censoring.

cheese_goddess 5y ago
> We still need cars, but we don't need meat. You're saying, we should change the way we eat so we can keep our cars? > Buying beans instead of meat at the grocery store is not a hard problem, and one any of us can immediately do. Buying beans and then buying supplements also because you can't live only on beans, or plants. You need to supplement minerals and nutrients that you can't get from plants. Or you can eat a balanced diet that includes meat, eggs or dairy along with mostly plants and not expose yourself to the danger of malnutrition.

jmknoll 5y ago

I understand the point you're trying to make, but transportation cost is not really a relevant point here. Food of any variety can be locally produced, or it can be sourced through industrial supply chains. Animal and plant products can both have an embedded cost in terms of carbon emissions, water, and usage of arable land. That is to say, a cow, a chicken, and a bunch of potatoes can all be locally sourced, and the costs of production for the cow are going to be much higher. Moreover, the food we "evolved to thrive on," was likely primarily nuts, seeds, fruits, insects, rodents, and occasionally larger animals like antelope (which would have been eaten nose-to-tail), not fatty steaks from domesticated animals.

1_player 5y ago
> Moreover, the food we "evolved to thrive on," was likely primarily nuts, seeds, fruits, insects, rodents, and occasionally larger animals like antelope (which would have been eaten nose-to-tail), not fatty steaks from domesticated animals. Citation needed. My sources mention the fact that we've evolved bigger brains when we've moved from low-density foods such as vegetables to high-density fatty foods, which is what distinguishes our diet from what primates eat. Meat is fatty, vegetables are not. In fact, vegetables are "fatty" for ruminants, as they have specialised bacteria that convert plant matter to fatty acids. We do not. https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/evidence-for-meat-eating-by-early-humans-103874273/ https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/evidence-f... https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fat-not-meat-may-have-led-to-bigger-hominin-brains/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fat-not-meat-may-... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK53561/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK53561/ Just a couple articles from a 30 second Google search. The fat == bad, or worse, meat == bad is a modern argument that has nothing to do with our evolution or our physiology. Here's the thing no one wants to admit: modern meat is bad for the planet, and we humans thrive on meat. We don't know how to reconcile the two, so we keep promoting and pushing towards worse and worse diets. Sorry, a vegan diet for everybody isn't the answer. There is no simple answer.
- paulcole 5y ago
  > Sorry, a vegan diet for everybody isn't the answer 0% of people in this thread suggested a vegan diet for everybody other than you. I specifically said reduce steak consumption to a few times per year — it’s less than the least you should do, but if you can’t do that, then will you actually do anything? Hope the people 3 generations from now like eating bugs!