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If the consumer had to grow the cow in complete unconsciousness without antibotics and with enough room to avoid close contact with other wild and domestic anim
by errcorrectcode 5y ago
If the consumer had to grow the cow in complete unconsciousness without antibotics and with enough room to avoid close contact with other wild and domestic animals to prevent superbug evolution, slaughter it, cook it, and pay for all of the GHG offsets of the entire supply chain necessary to support it, then it would be fine. Or, it's not, and it's an indulgence worse and different than heroin because its widespread acceptance of its production is its primary problem.
- csdvrx 5y agoDo you really need to rain on everyone's parade? Some people like meat. Deal with it.
- valgor 5y agoThe animals don't like it. The environment does not like it. Eating animals is not a "live and let live" situation because you are denying others the right to live.
- errcorrectcode 5y agoThe PeTA argument of kindness rarely works because most people are meat addicts and fine with unkindness so long as they don't have to see it. Also, rational self-preservation doesn't work because it's not a freight train about to run them over and most people don't make decisions rationally. There are plenty of existential risks involved in meat ag: 1. Pandemic evolution through a combination of antibiotic resistances (to speed meat production), wildlife-domestic animal interactions, animal crowding (Petri dish like dorm overcrowding spreading meningococcal meningitis), and human-animal interactions. 2. Climate change - 12% of anthropogenic GHGs and growing. Already at 417 ppm CO2 and climbing. 3. Irreparable rainforest loses due to clear-cutting for CAFOs and feed grain farms affecting the local climate of other equatorial ecosystems. Accelerating intensity of storms, variability of weather, and rising sea levels will lead to famines, resource wars, and retrofitting vs. relocation of major coastal cities. But because something hasn't happened yet, it's "crying wolf." They will bicker, complain, take potshots, and rationalize kicking-and-screaming until told they can't have it anymore because they're addicts. The sooner there are sustainable alternatives, widespread lifestyle changes, and externality luxury taxes, the better.
- ryandvm 5y ago12 Monkeys much?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- serf 5y ago>The animals don't like it. as opposed to the plant that longs for death? there are plenty of nervous-system-like responses from plants that are undergoing destruction, why not just admit that the reason behind these complaints is a selfish human-empowering reason rather than the emotional appeal of "what about the animals?" ? Won't anyone think of the plants? "...you are denying others the right to live." Isn't this basically just a condition of humanity? If it isn't a base principal can you point to a human that doesn't live that way?
- errcorrectcode 5y agoApples and steaks. Apples don't feel pain or nurse their young. You're attempting reductionism into absurd, conflated equivocation.
- DoreenMichele 5y agoThere are plenty of animals that don't nurse their young. That's a peculiarity of mammals. And the scientific evidence suggests that plants do likely feel something akin to what could be called pain. Their inability to scream with sounds detectable by human ears isn't evidence they don't feel anything. It's not absurd. It's what science tells us -- that plants emit chemicals to communicate to other plants about infestations of insects so they can take action to protect themselves and when injured they may give off a "pulse", aka a type of scream.
- valgor 5y agoIf you are concerned about the plants, you will be happy to learn that a plant-based diet kills far fewer plants than a meat eating diet. It takes a lot of plants to grow animals, and we only get a fraction of the total calories the animal consumes. Now that you understand, I highly recommend one of the two to get you started: https://challenge22.com/ https://challenge22.com/ or https://7dayvegan.com/ https://7dayvegan.com/ Let me know if I can help!
- errcorrectcode 5y agoToo bad. Some people like the species continuing. Deal with cheap meat coming to an end.
- Wistar 5y agoAKA, don't yuk my yum.
- serf 5y agohave you found this approach to work on anyone, regarding any topic?
- errcorrectcode 5y agoNo, but at least I didn't give consent to it through my silence or was on the wrong side of history, nearly as important as slavery, since it's an existential threat to all of us. Qui tacet consentire videtur.
- astrange 5y agoMy protip for life is to ignore the people who think they can forecast existential threats, because they'll inevitably logic themselves into becoming EAs who are terrified of a future robot god torturing them in a way that is definitely 100% rational and not the same thing as going to Hell.
- s1artibartfast 5y agoHave you ever considered that it may be counterproductive to your self stated goals and a more moderate approach may work better?
- valgor 5y agoWhat would be an appropriate moderate approach? Because for anyone completely shut off to the idea, any approach is too extreme. And for anyone remotely interested with be intrigued enough to learn more on their own.
- ryandvm 5y agoI hate to break it to you ecc, but you can spend your entire life in perfect stoic harmony with nature. Wearing twigs and leaves, living off grubs, and ultimately dying from an infected tooth while curled up under some boulder in the canyon lands and it's not going to change the mean global temperature even a trillionth of a degree. My advice would be to learn to live a little, because a little life is all you've got.