4 ms·

It was definitely a light-bulb moment, recognizing that in some cases, taxation is not a necessary evil, but a positive good (in this case, pricing externalitie

It was definitely a light-bulb moment, recognizing that in some cases, taxation is not a necessary evil, but a positive good (in this case, pricing externalities) [0]. At this point, I care less about what carbon taxes pay for, than making sure they exist at all, enough to shift incentives on both production and consumption. (That said: the dividend strategy certainly does seem to have advantages for political viability, and avoiding "yellow-vest" backlash to regressive taxation.) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigovian_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigovian_tax

jeromegv 5y ago
Canada carbon tax is interesting because it’s meant to be almost a zero-sum game. They take the money and you get it back in your tax refund. So it is more about pricing externality and ensure we slowly switch to better alternatives without disproportionately taxing us.
- theluketaylor 5y ago
  My understanding is that it’s designed to be zero-sum for someone who emits the average amount of carbon for a Canadian. If you emit less personally (say by taking public transit and living in an energy efficient apartment) you’ll actually get more back than you pay. If you are a big emitter it is a net tax in your activity. I like that design, since wealth is highly correlated with carbon emissions. I do want to see more programs to make rental units more energy efficient, since renters tend to be less wealthy and are in less control of how much they emit. If their landlord refuses to insulate more, switch from gas heat (or worse they are stuck with baseboard electric) there is very little someone can do to reduce their emissions and any incentives from the carbon pricing just become the punitive tax critics say carbon pricing is.
  - dmurray 5y ago
    Fwiw this is what "zero-sum" usually means. Not that it has net zero impact for any individual, but that the total impact is some fixed amount: every (marginal) dollar gained by you is a dollar paid by someone else.
edgyquant 5y ago
That taxes and tax breaks can be used in to create incentives is one of the fundamental aspects of modern liberalism. Most people don’t have the libertarian idea of taxes where they are evil/theft.
trembonator 5y ago

jeromegv 5y ago

Canada carbon tax is interesting because it’s meant to be almost a zero-sum game. They take the money and you get it back in your tax refund. So it is more about pricing externality and ensure we slowly switch to better alternatives without disproportionately taxing us.

theluketaylor 5y ago
My understanding is that it’s designed to be zero-sum for someone who emits the average amount of carbon for a Canadian. If you emit less personally (say by taking public transit and living in an energy efficient apartment) you’ll actually get more back than you pay. If you are a big emitter it is a net tax in your activity. I like that design, since wealth is highly correlated with carbon emissions. I do want to see more programs to make rental units more energy efficient, since renters tend to be less wealthy and are in less control of how much they emit. If their landlord refuses to insulate more, switch from gas heat (or worse they are stuck with baseboard electric) there is very little someone can do to reduce their emissions and any incentives from the carbon pricing just become the punitive tax critics say carbon pricing is.
- dmurray 5y ago
  Fwiw this is what "zero-sum" usually means. Not that it has net zero impact for any individual, but that the total impact is some fixed amount: every (marginal) dollar gained by you is a dollar paid by someone else.

edgyquant 5y ago

That taxes and tax breaks can be used in to create incentives is one of the fundamental aspects of modern liberalism. Most people don’t have the libertarian idea of taxes where they are evil/theft.

trembonator 5y ago