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Even if Shell is a completely amoral company (they're really not) setting up a carbon capture plant that emits carbon is still not even rational.

brazzy 5y ago
As the first comment in this tree pointed out, it's not, in fact a "a carbon capture plant". It's an oil refinery with added facilities to capture the CO2 that the refinery emits. And now it turns out that it captures less than half of the overall emissions. Which is better than nothing, but not nearly good enough.
tsimionescu 5y ago
If they're not amoral, they are morally evil, since they have repeatedly tried to cover up global warming, oil spills, and have many many other sins to their name.
- WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
  I don’t think it comes from being evil as such. Not a hollywood villain evil, at any rate. Antropomorphic personifications of Shell or BP would sure come out as very ruthless businessmen with enormous egos, deeply afraid of criticism and dealing with it dirty at times. But people who make up those corporations and direct them and so on are often driven by desires to do their jobs as efficiently as they can, make their dime, and deeply wishing that could please some unintended consequences of their jobs please be someone else’s problem. Please? “Will no one rid me of this turbulent environmental activist?” In other words, a pretty normal situation in a big company.
  - tsimionescu 5y ago
    Sure, but that would mean that the company as an entity is amoral, which the previous comment claimed "they are really not".
    - fsckboy 5y ago
      but you're conflating amoral with immoral; they are not the same
      - tsimionescu 5y ago
        I am not. You can claim that Shell and other oil companies are either amoral (they are not moral entities, their decisions are not subject to moral considerations), which is what you were saying; or, you can claim that they are immoral (they are moral entities, and have been making the wrong moral choices). But I don't think there is any way to see them as moral (as in morally good).
- erosenbe0 5y ago
  It's all relative though. The EV and solar industry certainly lies about the carbon footprint of their tech, exploitation of workers in developing countries, mining pollution, etc.

brazzy 5y ago

As the first comment in this tree pointed out, it's not, in fact a "a carbon capture plant". It's an oil refinery with added facilities to capture the CO2 that the refinery emits. And now it turns out that it captures less than half of the overall emissions. Which is better than nothing, but not nearly good enough.

tsimionescu 5y ago

If they're not amoral, they are morally evil, since they have repeatedly tried to cover up global warming, oil spills, and have many many other sins to their name.

WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
I don’t think it comes from being evil as such. Not a hollywood villain evil, at any rate. Antropomorphic personifications of Shell or BP would sure come out as very ruthless businessmen with enormous egos, deeply afraid of criticism and dealing with it dirty at times. But people who make up those corporations and direct them and so on are often driven by desires to do their jobs as efficiently as they can, make their dime, and deeply wishing that could please some unintended consequences of their jobs please be someone else’s problem. Please? “Will no one rid me of this turbulent environmental activist?” In other words, a pretty normal situation in a big company.
- tsimionescu 5y ago
  Sure, but that would mean that the company as an entity is amoral, which the previous comment claimed "they are really not".
  - fsckboy 5y ago
    but you're conflating amoral with immoral; they are not the same
    - tsimionescu 5y ago
      I am not. You can claim that Shell and other oil companies are either amoral (they are not moral entities, their decisions are not subject to moral considerations), which is what you were saying; or, you can claim that they are immoral (they are moral entities, and have been making the wrong moral choices). But I don't think there is any way to see them as moral (as in morally good).
erosenbe0 5y ago
It's all relative though. The EV and solar industry certainly lies about the carbon footprint of their tech, exploitation of workers in developing countries, mining pollution, etc.