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I'll even go a step further and say that if you've made a number of objectively bad major decisions in your life, I think it's worth spending a long while refle

I'll even go a step further and say that if you've made a number of objectively bad major decisions in your life, I think it's worth spending a long while reflecting on your decision making process, rather than just keep taking swings like this guy seems to be doing.

tyingq 5y ago
An alternative view is that a guy recently out of prison still found Amazon's working conditions bad enough to become an activist.
- TameAntelope 5y ago
  I think he would have found something to be upset about regardless of what he did.
- worker767424 5y ago
  It's really hard to say because the article limited it to this: > During his second week at Amazon, Smith was approached by workers involved in organizing the Amazon Labor Union. Although Smith loved his job, he thought there were things that could be improved. In particular, he said, he was concerned about the warehouse’s extremely rapid pace of work and lack of breaks.
  - tyingq 5y ago
    The article I linked to has lots more detail and direct quotes from Smith. https://www.nysfocus.com/2021/11/23/a-homeless-amazon-worker-tried-to-organize-a-union-then-amazon-fired-him/ https://www.nysfocus.com/2021/11/23/a-homeless-amazon-worker...
    - worker767424 5y ago
      Not many others from him on his issues with work conditions (there were others from other people about Amazon). He actually contradicts himself. This is him describing alleged intimidation after he because active in the union (emphasis added): > Everyone else working around me was working at their own pace and he was just on me sending me more carts to sort and telling me to work faster One reason he gave for joining the union was "the warehouse’s extremely rapid pace of work."
luma 5y ago
What have all those other good decision makers done to improve this man’s lot? What exactly should he be waiting for? Reasonable people acting reasonably is how we got to where we are, and there are a lot of people who aren’t happy with the results. I’m sure you would like those people to remain calm, but I don’t know that it’s wise to expect that they will continue doing so forever.
- TameAntelope 5y ago
  I don’t want anyone to remain calm or wait, I’ve read MLK too much to think that’s a good idea, but I do I want this specific convicted felon to reflect on his decision making for a while before continuing to react as he does, because he’s clearly not getting the outcomes he wants for himself.
decebalus1 5y ago
Yes, exactly, People need to know their place in society. Who knows what would happen if we give everyone a voice and allow all these freedoms to roam around. This guy should be kissing Bezos's feet for giving him the OPPORTUNITY to work. Tired of reading about all these 'bad major decisions' people getting involved in activism. Please let me know when the lacoste prep school bros organize, none of this deplorables bullshit.
- TameAntelope 5y ago
  Nowhere did I say this was a major bad decision in his life, I was, of course, referring to the robbery he was convicted of...
  - danShumway 5y ago
    > Nowhere did I say this was a major bad decision in his life Wait, are you saying he should take a step back and make fewer good decisions? You don't think this was a major bad decision, but you also don't think he should have made it? I'm trying to follow the line of logic that says that people who make mistakes should stop doing anything else even if they're not making a new mistake. I mean, that sounds a lot like saying that he made a bad choice and therefore he just shouldn't participate in society now regardless of the role or appropriateness of his actions, even after serving his sentence. And if that's the implication, I'd push back against that sentiment pretty hard.
    - TameAntelope 5y ago
      It could have been a minor bad decision, and it definitely had a major bad outcome for him. I'm saying he should not trust his own decision making process right now, considering how often those decisions have led him to a negative outcome.
      - danShumway 5y ago
        It sounds like he was stuck between a rock and a hard place on some level. Choosing not to try and organize or improve working conditions is also a decision; it would be a decision to stay where he was, even though there was a focused effort from multiple people to improve working conditions that he could take part in. "Wait and see" is very tricky advice to give to someone who was working at Amazon out of a homeless shelter. How confident are you that staying homeless and not taking steps to try and improve his working conditions would have had a better outcome for him? I am skeptical that "this had costs" is a good enough reason to say that this was a bad decision. A big part of coming out of rock bottom for people is the active decision not to stay at rock bottom, so if you don't think it was a major bad decision and you're just pointing out that it was risky... that's not a good enough criticism for me to be sympathetic to. From what I can tell, pretty much every life decision is risky when you're homeless. There's also something of a chicken and egg problem here. Bad jobs are sustainable because they hire desperate people. If you're advocating that people who have made mistakes and ended up in desperate places shouldn't do bold things or make major life changes, then that is essentially saying that they should stay in those positions (even though I know that's not what you mean to imply). Who is going to challenge the status quo around desperate jobs if we say that the people working those jobs aren't supposed to advocate for themselves?

tyingq 5y ago

An alternative view is that a guy recently out of prison still found Amazon's working conditions bad enough to become an activist.

TameAntelope 5y ago
I think he would have found something to be upset about regardless of what he did.
worker767424 5y ago
It's really hard to say because the article limited it to this: > During his second week at Amazon, Smith was approached by workers involved in organizing the Amazon Labor Union. Although Smith loved his job, he thought there were things that could be improved. In particular, he said, he was concerned about the warehouse’s extremely rapid pace of work and lack of breaks.
- tyingq 5y ago
  The article I linked to has lots more detail and direct quotes from Smith. https://www.nysfocus.com/2021/11/23/a-homeless-amazon-worker-tried-to-organize-a-union-then-amazon-fired-him/ https://www.nysfocus.com/2021/11/23/a-homeless-amazon-worker...
  - worker767424 5y ago
    Not many others from him on his issues with work conditions (there were others from other people about Amazon). He actually contradicts himself. This is him describing alleged intimidation after he because active in the union (emphasis added): > Everyone else working around me was working at their own pace and he was just on me sending me more carts to sort and telling me to work faster One reason he gave for joining the union was "the warehouse’s extremely rapid pace of work."

luma 5y ago

What have all those other good decision makers done to improve this man’s lot? What exactly should he be waiting for? Reasonable people acting reasonably is how we got to where we are, and there are a lot of people who aren’t happy with the results. I’m sure you would like those people to remain calm, but I don’t know that it’s wise to expect that they will continue doing so forever.

TameAntelope 5y ago
I don’t want anyone to remain calm or wait, I’ve read MLK too much to think that’s a good idea, but I do I want this specific convicted felon to reflect on his decision making for a while before continuing to react as he does, because he’s clearly not getting the outcomes he wants for himself.

decebalus1 5y ago

Yes, exactly, People need to know their place in society. Who knows what would happen if we give everyone a voice and allow all these freedoms to roam around. This guy should be kissing Bezos's feet for giving him the OPPORTUNITY to work. Tired of reading about all these 'bad major decisions' people getting involved in activism. Please let me know when the lacoste prep school bros organize, none of this deplorables bullshit.

TameAntelope 5y ago
Nowhere did I say this was a major bad decision in his life, I was, of course, referring to the robbery he was convicted of...
- danShumway 5y ago
  > Nowhere did I say this was a major bad decision in his life Wait, are you saying he should take a step back and make fewer good decisions? You don't think this was a major bad decision, but you also don't think he should have made it? I'm trying to follow the line of logic that says that people who make mistakes should stop doing anything else even if they're not making a new mistake. I mean, that sounds a lot like saying that he made a bad choice and therefore he just shouldn't participate in society now regardless of the role or appropriateness of his actions, even after serving his sentence. And if that's the implication, I'd push back against that sentiment pretty hard.
  - TameAntelope 5y ago
    It could have been a minor bad decision, and it definitely had a major bad outcome for him. I'm saying he should not trust his own decision making process right now, considering how often those decisions have led him to a negative outcome.
    - danShumway 5y ago
      It sounds like he was stuck between a rock and a hard place on some level. Choosing not to try and organize or improve working conditions is also a decision; it would be a decision to stay where he was, even though there was a focused effort from multiple people to improve working conditions that he could take part in. "Wait and see" is very tricky advice to give to someone who was working at Amazon out of a homeless shelter. How confident are you that staying homeless and not taking steps to try and improve his working conditions would have had a better outcome for him? I am skeptical that "this had costs" is a good enough reason to say that this was a bad decision. A big part of coming out of rock bottom for people is the active decision not to stay at rock bottom, so if you don't think it was a major bad decision and you're just pointing out that it was risky... that's not a good enough criticism for me to be sympathetic to. From what I can tell, pretty much every life decision is risky when you're homeless. There's also something of a chicken and egg problem here. Bad jobs are sustainable because they hire desperate people. If you're advocating that people who have made mistakes and ended up in desperate places shouldn't do bold things or make major life changes, then that is essentially saying that they should stay in those positions (even though I know that's not what you mean to imply). Who is going to challenge the status quo around desperate jobs if we say that the people working those jobs aren't supposed to advocate for themselves?