5 ms·

It always amazes me, in situations like this, that people just end up suffering even though the machine is "working on their behalf." Like, I used to have this

It always amazes me, in situations like this, that people just end up suffering even though the machine is "working on their behalf." Like, I used to have this idea – I have no idea where it came from – that if a crime happened to you, the government would step in and help you. Like, if your family member is murdered in your home, they'd come in and clean it up and help you fix the door since you'll be inconsolable. Or, if you get fired for something like this that the government would help you get back on your feet and make sure you have a place to stay and pay your bills. How utterly childish and naive that was. This country has no safety net and that's terrifying.

selestify 5y ago
I grew up with that sort of trust in authority too. Somewhere along the line — I’m not sure exactly where — that trust evaporated.
ncallaway 5y ago
> How utterly childish and naive that was. It's not childish. It's a totally reasonable expectation of how the world should work. Don't pass that off as childish, instead ask why the government is failing to meet its most basic obligations. It's only naive because the government has totally failed the people. There's no reason (other than a system designed to protect the interests of the wealthy instead of the needy) that it works this way. We should forge a world where such expectations aren't naive.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
codewithcheese 5y ago
In some countries there is victim of crime compensation. I don't know if it's timely enough to stop one becoming homeless.
ErikVandeWater 5y ago
> This country has no safety net and that's terrifying. No safety net whatsoever?
- macintux 5y ago
  A thin one with gaping holes and a pile of corpses beneath it.
nightski 5y ago
Many people have a pretty strong safety net in their family and friends. I've been there for family members in tough spots and take a lot of comfort in knowing my immediate family would be there for me if I was in dire straights. It is terrifying and unfortunate for those who do not have that luxury though, and strong local communities can help there. We need to do a more. But I think in all cases where I have the option I'd prefer to rely on those close to me than the government. But it also emphasizes how much impact one can have just helping those in need directly instead of complaining about how crappy the government is.
- crowbahr 5y ago
  Poverty affords no nets. To be caught by family, your family has to be capable of catching. Sometimes that's the case, but all to often your family breaks the net in an attempt to catch you and end up homeless as well.
registeredcorn 5y ago
I wouldn't call it childish to have such a conception, but rather an indicator of ignorance. Please note that I do not mean that in the insulting tone, but in the literal one. When we do not know something, we are ignorant of it. I would simply say that you were ignorant to that fact. The government's role is not that of a protector of people, but instead a protector of its own autonomy. That is, government carries out a means of control (law, tax, policy, decree, etc.), and protects its ability to control from threats local and foreign. That is completely independent to the wealfare of its citizens. The ideal of a government having a role in the safety, welfare, health, or interest of the citizens it controls is bizarre. It's a view that presumes goodness in group, where there is no indication of that ever being the case at any point in human history. It is, in a more disturbing and worrying light, a view that reassigns the government as a kind of parental figure, when it should be abundantly clear that nothing of the sort is the case. It would be like a newborn chick, presuming the snake in its nest a protector, instead of a looming threat. The issue is, leaders are paid to lie and assure citizens of the opposite. Without a great amount of personal investment - or first hand experience - some may even start to believe such tawdry, grasping hisses as fact. The actions of such a cabal is apparent once it is measured. Ignorance to that does not make you stupid, or childish, or any other number of things. It simply means that you did not know, what you later learned. From the sounds of it, this is a thing that has bothered you, and I am sorry to hear that it has weighed heavily on you. Just keep in mind that you are not alone in this sadness. It is a thing that may pass. Just keep in mind the facts of the situation you are in, and that anyone - ANYONE - who claims to do whatever "needs doing" to be in "the public interest" is most certainly one who moves about on their stomach. On a related note: It may be beneficial to point out that, in a similar vein, police officer have no legal responsibility to protect citizens or their property - their role is not of protection, as some sort of "public utility bodyguard", but instead one of law enforcement. This is a slightly more nebulous point, as the so-called motto of law enforcement (in America, at least) is "To protect and serve". The fact of the matter is that it has been affirmed in SCOTUS that no law enforcement officer will be held responsible for failing to act to protect a citizen, even to the point of grevious harm or death. Laws are far more telling of the reality of the thing, than any non-binding, hopeful motto. A motto is merely a desire of public perception.
autoexec 5y ago
> . Like, if your family member is murdered in your home, they'd come in and clean it up and help you fix the door since you'll be inconsolable. Seriously, the number of people who have had to mop up their kid's blood or pick chunks of their dead loved one's brains out of carpeting is depressing to think about. If you've got money there are people who will come and do it for you, but those services aren't cheap. Police won't even pay to repair a door they broke down in error. https://reason.com/2010/01/26/dc-police-raid-wrong-home-city/ https://reason.com/2010/01/26/dc-police-raid-wrong-home-city... The property damages are bad enough, but they also don't do anything for the mental trauma they cause when they force you to stand handcuffed and naked in the middle of the room while a team of cops swarm around taking video and destroying your things, or they make your kids sit right next to the corpse of the family dog they murdered after busting in. It's beyond unacceptable how little help people get from the government even after they were directly abused by it. Even the lawsuits which may or may not get you anything at all are expensive, time consuming, and stressful yet you somehow have to manage it while processing everything that happened to you.

selestify 5y ago

I grew up with that sort of trust in authority too. Somewhere along the line — I’m not sure exactly where — that trust evaporated.

ncallaway 5y ago

> How utterly childish and naive that was. It's not childish. It's a totally reasonable expectation of how the world should work. Don't pass that off as childish, instead ask why the government is failing to meet its most basic obligations. It's only naive because the government has totally failed the people. There's no reason (other than a system designed to protect the interests of the wealthy instead of the needy) that it works this way. We should forge a world where such expectations aren't naive.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

codewithcheese 5y ago

In some countries there is victim of crime compensation. I don't know if it's timely enough to stop one becoming homeless.

ErikVandeWater 5y ago

> This country has no safety net and that's terrifying. No safety net whatsoever?

macintux 5y ago
A thin one with gaping holes and a pile of corpses beneath it.

nightski 5y ago

Many people have a pretty strong safety net in their family and friends. I've been there for family members in tough spots and take a lot of comfort in knowing my immediate family would be there for me if I was in dire straights. It is terrifying and unfortunate for those who do not have that luxury though, and strong local communities can help there. We need to do a more. But I think in all cases where I have the option I'd prefer to rely on those close to me than the government. But it also emphasizes how much impact one can have just helping those in need directly instead of complaining about how crappy the government is.

crowbahr 5y ago
Poverty affords no nets. To be caught by family, your family has to be capable of catching. Sometimes that's the case, but all to often your family breaks the net in an attempt to catch you and end up homeless as well.

registeredcorn 5y ago

I wouldn't call it childish to have such a conception, but rather an indicator of ignorance. Please note that I do not mean that in the insulting tone, but in the literal one. When we do not know something, we are ignorant of it. I would simply say that you were ignorant to that fact. The government's role is not that of a protector of people, but instead a protector of its own autonomy. That is, government carries out a means of control (law, tax, policy, decree, etc.), and protects its ability to control from threats local and foreign. That is completely independent to the wealfare of its citizens. The ideal of a government having a role in the safety, welfare, health, or interest of the citizens it controls is bizarre. It's a view that presumes goodness in group, where there is no indication of that ever being the case at any point in human history. It is, in a more disturbing and worrying light, a view that reassigns the government as a kind of parental figure, when it should be abundantly clear that nothing of the sort is the case. It would be like a newborn chick, presuming the snake in its nest a protector, instead of a looming threat. The issue is, leaders are paid to lie and assure citizens of the opposite. Without a great amount of personal investment - or first hand experience - some may even start to believe such tawdry, grasping hisses as fact. The actions of such a cabal is apparent once it is measured. Ignorance to that does not make you stupid, or childish, or any other number of things. It simply means that you did not know, what you later learned. From the sounds of it, this is a thing that has bothered you, and I am sorry to hear that it has weighed heavily on you. Just keep in mind that you are not alone in this sadness. It is a thing that may pass. Just keep in mind the facts of the situation you are in, and that anyone - ANYONE - who claims to do whatever "needs doing" to be in "the public interest" is most certainly one who moves about on their stomach. On a related note: It may be beneficial to point out that, in a similar vein, police officer have no legal responsibility to protect citizens or their property - their role is not of protection, as some sort of "public utility bodyguard", but instead one of law enforcement. This is a slightly more nebulous point, as the so-called motto of law enforcement (in America, at least) is "To protect and serve". The fact of the matter is that it has been affirmed in SCOTUS that no law enforcement officer will be held responsible for failing to act to protect a citizen, even to the point of grevious harm or death. Laws are far more telling of the reality of the thing, than any non-binding, hopeful motto. A motto is merely a desire of public perception.

autoexec 5y ago

> . Like, if your family member is murdered in your home, they'd come in and clean it up and help you fix the door since you'll be inconsolable. Seriously, the number of people who have had to mop up their kid's blood or pick chunks of their dead loved one's brains out of carpeting is depressing to think about. If you've got money there are people who will come and do it for you, but those services aren't cheap. Police won't even pay to repair a door they broke down in error. https://reason.com/2010/01/26/dc-police-raid-wrong-home-city/ https://reason.com/2010/01/26/dc-police-raid-wrong-home-city... The property damages are bad enough, but they also don't do anything for the mental trauma they cause when they force you to stand handcuffed and naked in the middle of the room while a team of cops swarm around taking video and destroying your things, or they make your kids sit right next to the corpse of the family dog they murdered after busting in. It's beyond unacceptable how little help people get from the government even after they were directly abused by it. Even the lawsuits which may or may not get you anything at all are expensive, time consuming, and stressful yet you somehow have to manage it while processing everything that happened to you.