5 ms·

E-ink is the coolest tech with the worst business practices. The availability of affordable e-ink tech is just not there. I understand the research-intensive na

E-ink is the coolest tech with the worst business practices. The availability of affordable e-ink tech is just not there. I understand the research-intensive nature of these displays, but the company itself has been holding back the e-ink market by just operating poorly in so many ways. My biggest worry is that they'll fold at some point, leaving all the e-ink patents in the hand of a troll that will hold tech back for 20 years.

black_puppydog 5y ago
Well, some of these patents should already be reaching their half-life at least. :) But yeah, it was a sad day for me when I learned why e-ink isn't ubiquitous.
- zouhair 5y ago
  > why e-ink isn't ubiquitous. Do you have any source?
  - cogman10 5y ago
    Here's a throwaway on HN explaining the problem. [1] Here's an example of E-Ink defending their patents [2] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26143779 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26143779 [2] https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20171220005895/en/E-Ink-Successfully-Defends-Patent-Infringement-Case https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20171220005895/en/E-I...
    - WillPostForFood 5y ago
      #2 is RFI suing E-Ink claiming E-ink infringed on RFI's patents.
- Tagbert 5y ago
  The first generation of patents has already expired. The company has been issued additional patents for techniques that went into the more recent versions. It means that someone probably could make screens now, but they would be lower resolution, slower refresh and have less contrast than your typical Kindle. Probably good for some uses but probably not enough of a volume to bring prices down.
  - webmaven 5y ago
    > It means that someone probably could make screens now, but they would be lower resolution, slower refresh and have less contrast than your typical Kindle. Probably good for some uses but probably not enough of a volume to bring prices down. It also means that someone could advance the basic tech in directions that haven't been patented.
- ineedasername 5y ago
  Is it just excessive licensing fees, or other business practices?
  - deepspace 5y ago
    E-Ink has the worst product management team of any company I have ever watched. There are so many applications out there begging for low-cost, low-power displays, and they are just not addressing that market. They have an extremely limited selection of products, and the ones they do have are priced unreasonably high. They seem to be reluctant to enter into bulk OEM agreements with anyone, and they charge exorbitant license fees for anyone who wants to manufacture displays themselves. In short, they are considered to be terrible stewards of the technology.
diob 5y ago
For real, I just want e ink to flourish (I want a high powered, super fast kindle) instead of rent seek. I'd even pay way more for it.
obilgic 5y ago
out of curiosity, isn't that irrelevant since they can just get acquired if there was a big opportunity in using this technology in a product.
- t-3 5y ago
  Amazon would get hit with antitrust faster than you could think it, and nobody else is big enough to be able to just make an offer they can't refuse.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

black_puppydog 5y ago

Well, some of these patents should already be reaching their half-life at least. :) But yeah, it was a sad day for me when I learned why e-ink isn't ubiquitous.

zouhair 5y ago
> why e-ink isn't ubiquitous. Do you have any source?
- cogman10 5y ago
  Here's a throwaway on HN explaining the problem. [1] Here's an example of E-Ink defending their patents [2] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26143779 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26143779 [2] https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20171220005895/en/E-Ink-Successfully-Defends-Patent-Infringement-Case https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20171220005895/en/E-I...
  - WillPostForFood 5y ago
    #2 is RFI suing E-Ink claiming E-ink infringed on RFI's patents.
Tagbert 5y ago
The first generation of patents has already expired. The company has been issued additional patents for techniques that went into the more recent versions. It means that someone probably could make screens now, but they would be lower resolution, slower refresh and have less contrast than your typical Kindle. Probably good for some uses but probably not enough of a volume to bring prices down.
- webmaven 5y ago
  > It means that someone probably could make screens now, but they would be lower resolution, slower refresh and have less contrast than your typical Kindle. Probably good for some uses but probably not enough of a volume to bring prices down. It also means that someone could advance the basic tech in directions that haven't been patented.
ineedasername 5y ago
Is it just excessive licensing fees, or other business practices?
- deepspace 5y ago
  E-Ink has the worst product management team of any company I have ever watched. There are so many applications out there begging for low-cost, low-power displays, and they are just not addressing that market. They have an extremely limited selection of products, and the ones they do have are priced unreasonably high. They seem to be reluctant to enter into bulk OEM agreements with anyone, and they charge exorbitant license fees for anyone who wants to manufacture displays themselves. In short, they are considered to be terrible stewards of the technology.

diob 5y ago

For real, I just want e ink to flourish (I want a high powered, super fast kindle) instead of rent seek. I'd even pay way more for it.

obilgic 5y ago

out of curiosity, isn't that irrelevant since they can just get acquired if there was a big opportunity in using this technology in a product.

t-3 5y ago
Amazon would get hit with antitrust faster than you could think it, and nobody else is big enough to be able to just make an offer they can't refuse.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]