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>pushing everyone into eating cheap to grow grains There is more to plant-based food than grains. Seeds and legumes are full of nutrients. People can and do su

by dqv 5y ago

>pushing everyone into eating cheap to grow grains There is more to plant-based food than grains. Seeds and legumes are full of nutrients. People can and do survive on way less meat.

cjbgkagh 5y ago
Like there is more to food than calories, there is more to life than survival.
- dqv 5y ago
  I can only guess what you mean by this. If it's that people can't get enjoyment out of eating plant-based food, you're wrong. And if it's that people will have less enjoyable lives because they can't eat meat every day, you're also wrong.
  - cjbgkagh 5y ago
    No, and clearly that doesn’t mesh with bioreactor food which typically isn’t enjoyable to eat. I’m saying the science on the health relationship with food isn’t great and I don’t trust it. Especially in the ‘healthy at any size’ era we now live in. I eat meat to help cover gaps in understanding, and by careful measurement I can tell that I’m healthier when I eat it, or specifically less healthy when I don’t. If the science can be improved then maybe we could then shift away from meat.
    - dqv 5y ago
      >Especially in the ‘healthy at any size’ era we now live in I'm not sure this has anything to do with science. It's turned into a religion, but is there evidence to suggest it is affecting the science of health? >I eat meat to help cover gaps in understanding, and by careful measurement I can tell that I’m healthier when I eat it, or specifically less healthy when I don’t. What measurements are those? Anecdotally, eating no animal products for the last year, my blood pressure has gone down, I've lost weight but maintained strength, and I don't have this weird gut pain I used to have. Certainly the qualitative aspects aren't reliably measurable, but I feel that the decrease in blood pressure and weight are directly relatable to these changes. >If the science can be improved then maybe we could then shift away from meat. What about the science now do you find untrustworthy? Is it the fact that it's usually funded by companies who have an agenda, or what? >bioreactor food which typically isn’t enjoyable to eat This is fermentation right? Like kimchi? Honestly, kimchi smells pretty bad but I like the way it tastes a lot.
      - cjbgkagh 5y ago
        I’ve always been distrustful of food science, ever since the food pyramid (grain suppliers) was introduced to me as a child, and the quadrant of tastes (funded by umami suppliers in the condiment wars). More recently the CSIRO prostrated themselves you the lamb lobby. I picked the healthy at any size example as it’s the most obviously wrong and early death has to be the clearest indication of poor health. I’m not a fan of corn, I don’t even like the cows that I eat eating it. I have a genetic disorder (one of the genetic anxiety disorders) that requires careful monitoring. I monitor strength, endurance, and a panel of blood work every 3 months. Everyday day I play a competitive ranked FPS game to see how my cognitive functions are going. Drops in ranks clearly correspond to changes in diet and behavior. Yeah, yeast is a good bioreactor also Cyanobacteria. Promite is pretty good. Cyanobacteria taste like fish food. I’d like to see more options here.
        dqv 5y ago
        What changes in blood work did you notice after not eating meat? And how long did you go without it?
        cjbgkagh 5y ago
        I went through elimination diets that included periods of no meat. About 2 weeks into it I’ll start seeing lower reaction speeds, the games are very sensitive to changes so it shows up there first, much later I’d see lower T3 and Free Test. I immediately feel much more vital after I break the no meat periods with a big stake.
flenserboy 5y ago
Seeds and legumes are also filled with anti-nutrients. One has to be careful how much of these are consumed.
- dqv 5y ago
  >One has to be careful how much of these are consumed. You have to be careful about how much are consumed raw [0]. But most people are going to cook beans and grains as they aren't very good uncooked. [0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7600777/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7600777/ In their whole and cooked form, there is currently no strong evidence from human trials to support the claim that lectin-rich foods consistently cause inflammation, intestinal permeability, or nutrient absorption issues in the general population.
- ramblenode 5y ago
  Eating in general does a lot of mechanical and chemical damage to the body that has to be repaired. Most foods seem to contain some portion of proteins that can be harmful (red meat is a WHO Group I carcinogen to gut tissue). Even fructose is damaging to the liver and triggers an immune reaction. Cooking pre-digests many problematics but some portion will remain. It's the role of the immune system to deactivate the damaging proteins so that the damage doesn't accumulate. Eating and digestion are a constant balance between sustenance and wear, and problems begin when the rate of wear outpaces the rate of repair.

by dqv 5y ago

>pushing everyone into eating cheap to grow grains There is more to plant-based food than grains. Seeds and legumes are full of nutrients. People can and do survive on way less meat.

cjbgkagh 5y ago

Like there is more to food than calories, there is more to life than survival.

dqv 5y ago
I can only guess what you mean by this. If it's that people can't get enjoyment out of eating plant-based food, you're wrong. And if it's that people will have less enjoyable lives because they can't eat meat every day, you're also wrong.
- cjbgkagh 5y ago
  No, and clearly that doesn’t mesh with bioreactor food which typically isn’t enjoyable to eat. I’m saying the science on the health relationship with food isn’t great and I don’t trust it. Especially in the ‘healthy at any size’ era we now live in. I eat meat to help cover gaps in understanding, and by careful measurement I can tell that I’m healthier when I eat it, or specifically less healthy when I don’t. If the science can be improved then maybe we could then shift away from meat.
  - dqv 5y ago
    >Especially in the ‘healthy at any size’ era we now live in I'm not sure this has anything to do with science. It's turned into a religion, but is there evidence to suggest it is affecting the science of health? >I eat meat to help cover gaps in understanding, and by careful measurement I can tell that I’m healthier when I eat it, or specifically less healthy when I don’t. What measurements are those? Anecdotally, eating no animal products for the last year, my blood pressure has gone down, I've lost weight but maintained strength, and I don't have this weird gut pain I used to have. Certainly the qualitative aspects aren't reliably measurable, but I feel that the decrease in blood pressure and weight are directly relatable to these changes. >If the science can be improved then maybe we could then shift away from meat. What about the science now do you find untrustworthy? Is it the fact that it's usually funded by companies who have an agenda, or what? >bioreactor food which typically isn’t enjoyable to eat This is fermentation right? Like kimchi? Honestly, kimchi smells pretty bad but I like the way it tastes a lot.
    - cjbgkagh 5y ago
      I’ve always been distrustful of food science, ever since the food pyramid (grain suppliers) was introduced to me as a child, and the quadrant of tastes (funded by umami suppliers in the condiment wars). More recently the CSIRO prostrated themselves you the lamb lobby. I picked the healthy at any size example as it’s the most obviously wrong and early death has to be the clearest indication of poor health. I’m not a fan of corn, I don’t even like the cows that I eat eating it. I have a genetic disorder (one of the genetic anxiety disorders) that requires careful monitoring. I monitor strength, endurance, and a panel of blood work every 3 months. Everyday day I play a competitive ranked FPS game to see how my cognitive functions are going. Drops in ranks clearly correspond to changes in diet and behavior. Yeah, yeast is a good bioreactor also Cyanobacteria. Promite is pretty good. Cyanobacteria taste like fish food. I’d like to see more options here.
      - dqv 5y ago
        What changes in blood work did you notice after not eating meat? And how long did you go without it?
        cjbgkagh 5y ago
        I went through elimination diets that included periods of no meat. About 2 weeks into it I’ll start seeing lower reaction speeds, the games are very sensitive to changes so it shows up there first, much later I’d see lower T3 and Free Test. I immediately feel much more vital after I break the no meat periods with a big stake.

flenserboy 5y ago

Seeds and legumes are also filled with anti-nutrients. One has to be careful how much of these are consumed.

dqv 5y ago
>One has to be careful how much of these are consumed. You have to be careful about how much are consumed raw [0]. But most people are going to cook beans and grains as they aren't very good uncooked. [0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7600777/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7600777/ In their whole and cooked form, there is currently no strong evidence from human trials to support the claim that lectin-rich foods consistently cause inflammation, intestinal permeability, or nutrient absorption issues in the general population.
ramblenode 5y ago
Eating in general does a lot of mechanical and chemical damage to the body that has to be repaired. Most foods seem to contain some portion of proteins that can be harmful (red meat is a WHO Group I carcinogen to gut tissue). Even fructose is damaging to the liver and triggers an immune reaction. Cooking pre-digests many problematics but some portion will remain. It's the role of the immune system to deactivate the damaging proteins so that the damage doesn't accumulate. Eating and digestion are a constant balance between sustenance and wear, and problems begin when the rate of wear outpaces the rate of repair.