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Maybe you just see capitalism for what it is [1]. If so, this might be the wrong forum for you to be asking that question on. On the other hand, not every job i

Maybe you just see capitalism for what it is [1]. If so, this might be the wrong forum for you to be asking that question on. On the other hand, not every job is unproductive busywork (despite being for profit), so maybe you're just not feeling well or you've had exceptionally bad luck? 1. https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/ https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/

kolinko 5y ago
As someone who lived through communism - this kind of phrasing is really dangerous. What people complain about on /r/antiwork is problems that people from my country would kill to have. Capitalism has it's faults, but just complaining, without a constructive alternative can lead to way worse outcomes.
- gtsop 5y ago
  > Capitalism has it's faults, but just complaining, without a constructive alternative Classic "mudding the waters" line, it could be written by a plugin these days. The fact that you don't agree with the alternatives doesn't mean they aren't out there and people "just complain".
  - zepto 5y ago
    The person who is complaining isn’t offering an alternative, and none of the alternatives have been implemented successfully anywhere.
- guerrilla 5y ago
  Worker ownership of the means of production (i.e. democracy at work) is an alternative and that's most certainly not what you lived through, nor did you live through a stateless, classless and moneyless society. What you lived through was fascism with red flags. If you check the sidebar of that subreddit you'll find anarchism and mutualism as the solutions to the problems it identifies.
  - zepto 5y ago
    *Solutions that nobody anywhere has ever implemented successfully.
    - VictorPath 5y ago
      All of human history was workers controlling the means of their production until about 10,000 years ago, when class society was introduced in parts of the world, with one class who worked, and an idle class that did not, expropriating surplus labor time from those who worked. Unexplained labor still exists deep in the Amazon and elsewhere, but mining companies finding new traces of valuable minerals are extinguishing the last of the old free way.
      - zepto 5y ago
        Ok, so you want a pre-literate hunter-gatherer society. I say give it your best shot!
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - guerrilla 5y ago
      It's almost as if there's a class of people who own most of the world's resources and entire heavily armed states who have an interest in ensuring that failure at all costs, you might say. Then again, it's been tried plenty of times. That's what cooperatives are, family farms are, what you owning your laptop as a programmer are. We just cut down on the coup d'etats and union busting and expand that kind of democratization of the work week to everyone. It's also a silly argument considering you could have said the same before agriculture and before capitalism succeeded.
      - zepto 5y ago
        > That's what cooperatives are, family farms are, what you owning your laptop as a programmer are. These are just different kinds of organization within capitalism. Clubs are a thing too, you know. These aren’t ‘solutions to capitalism’. > It's also a silly argument considering you could have said the same before agriculture and before capitalism succeeded. It’s only a silly argument if someone presents a solution. So far nobody is doing so.

kolinko 5y ago

As someone who lived through communism - this kind of phrasing is really dangerous. What people complain about on /r/antiwork is problems that people from my country would kill to have. Capitalism has it's faults, but just complaining, without a constructive alternative can lead to way worse outcomes.

gtsop 5y ago
> Capitalism has it's faults, but just complaining, without a constructive alternative Classic "mudding the waters" line, it could be written by a plugin these days. The fact that you don't agree with the alternatives doesn't mean they aren't out there and people "just complain".
- zepto 5y ago
  The person who is complaining isn’t offering an alternative, and none of the alternatives have been implemented successfully anywhere.
guerrilla 5y ago
Worker ownership of the means of production (i.e. democracy at work) is an alternative and that's most certainly not what you lived through, nor did you live through a stateless, classless and moneyless society. What you lived through was fascism with red flags. If you check the sidebar of that subreddit you'll find anarchism and mutualism as the solutions to the problems it identifies.
- zepto 5y ago
  *Solutions that nobody anywhere has ever implemented successfully.
  - VictorPath 5y ago
    All of human history was workers controlling the means of their production until about 10,000 years ago, when class society was introduced in parts of the world, with one class who worked, and an idle class that did not, expropriating surplus labor time from those who worked. Unexplained labor still exists deep in the Amazon and elsewhere, but mining companies finding new traces of valuable minerals are extinguishing the last of the old free way.
    - zepto 5y ago
      Ok, so you want a pre-literate hunter-gatherer society. I say give it your best shot!
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - guerrilla 5y ago
    It's almost as if there's a class of people who own most of the world's resources and entire heavily armed states who have an interest in ensuring that failure at all costs, you might say. Then again, it's been tried plenty of times. That's what cooperatives are, family farms are, what you owning your laptop as a programmer are. We just cut down on the coup d'etats and union busting and expand that kind of democratization of the work week to everyone. It's also a silly argument considering you could have said the same before agriculture and before capitalism succeeded.
    - zepto 5y ago
      > That's what cooperatives are, family farms are, what you owning your laptop as a programmer are. These are just different kinds of organization within capitalism. Clubs are a thing too, you know. These aren’t ‘solutions to capitalism’. > It's also a silly argument considering you could have said the same before agriculture and before capitalism succeeded. It’s only a silly argument if someone presents a solution. So far nobody is doing so.