3 ms·

> As for Rwanda, that’s moving the goalposts — there are many things which the Rwandan government has done which most of us do not approve of. I am only moving

by ls15 5y ago

> As for Rwanda, that’s moving the goalposts — there are many things which the Rwandan government has done which most of us do not approve of. I am only moving the goalpost back to its initial position. Vaccine mandates are draconian - at least when the data is so weak as for SARS-CoV-2.

acdha 5y ago
> I am only moving the goalpost back to its initial position. Vaccine mandates are draconian - at least when the data is so weak as for SARS-CoV-2. No, you're conflating two separate things to try to make a weak case appear stronger. Part of living in a society is accepting restrictions on your personal choices which impact those around you. Vaccination mandates are one of the big public health success stories since they reduce spread, load on the medical system, and the cost to society of having to care for people who are no longer as productive. Polio was significant asymptomatic, too — 70% of people had no symptoms and 25% had only mild symptoms, with a fatality rate under 1% — but we almost eradicated it by using public health measures like requiring vaccination to attend schools. The key difference is that these restrictions are linked to the activities which vaccines make safer: prior to the Republican Party choosing to politicize the issue, ~95% of American school children were vaccinated against common diseases. Someone who objected to that didn't have a paramilitary squad track them down, they just had to homeschool, not travel to many countries, etc. so they bore the cost of their decision rather than everyone else. That's a pretty important difference compared to what allegedly happened in some parts of Rwanda.
- ls15 5y ago
  > No, you're conflating two separate things to try to make a weak case appear stronger. Like using Polio for making the case for mandatory SARS-CoV-2 vaccines look stronger?
  - acdha 5y ago
    No, using it as a reminder that saying a high percentage of people have mild cases isn't a valid argument for saying we should just write off everyone else. Long COVID isn't as bad as Polio but that doesn't mean that it hasn't caused problems for millions of people or that we should be cavalier about assuming no long-term or worse problems will emerge. Getting people vaccinated before we relax restrictions is a cheap, easy, and highly effective way to reduce those risks.

by ls15 5y ago

acdha 5y ago

> I am only moving the goalpost back to its initial position. Vaccine mandates are draconian - at least when the data is so weak as for SARS-CoV-2. No, you're conflating two separate things to try to make a weak case appear stronger. Part of living in a society is accepting restrictions on your personal choices which impact those around you. Vaccination mandates are one of the big public health success stories since they reduce spread, load on the medical system, and the cost to society of having to care for people who are no longer as productive. Polio was significant asymptomatic, too — 70% of people had no symptoms and 25% had only mild symptoms, with a fatality rate under 1% — but we almost eradicated it by using public health measures like requiring vaccination to attend schools. The key difference is that these restrictions are linked to the activities which vaccines make safer: prior to the Republican Party choosing to politicize the issue, ~95% of American school children were vaccinated against common diseases. Someone who objected to that didn't have a paramilitary squad track them down, they just had to homeschool, not travel to many countries, etc. so they bore the cost of their decision rather than everyone else. That's a pretty important difference compared to what allegedly happened in some parts of Rwanda.

ls15 5y ago
> No, you're conflating two separate things to try to make a weak case appear stronger. Like using Polio for making the case for mandatory SARS-CoV-2 vaccines look stronger?
- acdha 5y ago
  No, using it as a reminder that saying a high percentage of people have mild cases isn't a valid argument for saying we should just write off everyone else. Long COVID isn't as bad as Polio but that doesn't mean that it hasn't caused problems for millions of people or that we should be cavalier about assuming no long-term or worse problems will emerge. Getting people vaccinated before we relax restrictions is a cheap, easy, and highly effective way to reduce those risks.