4 ms·

> That you should be glad that your vaccination made you an order of magnitude less likely to have a severe case? For Omicron? And even if. It is great if it i

by ls15 5y ago

> That you should be glad that your vaccination made you an order of magnitude less likely to have a severe case? For Omicron? And even if. It is great if it is a result of my personal decision to get vaccinated. It is awful to force others to get vaccinated, especially if most claims regarding efficacy get weakened a lot over time and people ignore that. Vaccine mandates and mandatory passports everywhere have failed and we should be happy about that. Who also supports forced vaccinations like in Rwanda? https://www.dw.com/en/rwanda-forcibly-vaccinating-people-against-covid-victims-say/a-60413978 https://www.dw.com/en/rwanda-forcibly-vaccinating-people-aga...

acdha 5y ago
Yes, even for Omicron. Vaccinated people are far less likely to have severe cases at every age group — not being boosted means you’re less likely to avoid a case altogether but the T cell response is quite effective at helping you kick it faster. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e3.htm?s_cid=mm7104e3_w https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e3.htm?s_cid=mm... https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/01/21/cdc-studies-booster-shots-omicron/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/01/21/cdc-studies... https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-s... As for Rwanda, that’s moving the goalposts — there are many things which the Rwandan government has done which most of us do not approve of.
- ls15 5y ago
  > As for Rwanda, that’s moving the goalposts — there are many things which the Rwandan government has done which most of us do not approve of. I am only moving the goalpost back to its initial position. Vaccine mandates are draconian - at least when the data is so weak as for SARS-CoV-2.
  - acdha 5y ago
    > I am only moving the goalpost back to its initial position. Vaccine mandates are draconian - at least when the data is so weak as for SARS-CoV-2. No, you're conflating two separate things to try to make a weak case appear stronger. Part of living in a society is accepting restrictions on your personal choices which impact those around you. Vaccination mandates are one of the big public health success stories since they reduce spread, load on the medical system, and the cost to society of having to care for people who are no longer as productive. Polio was significant asymptomatic, too — 70% of people had no symptoms and 25% had only mild symptoms, with a fatality rate under 1% — but we almost eradicated it by using public health measures like requiring vaccination to attend schools. The key difference is that these restrictions are linked to the activities which vaccines make safer: prior to the Republican Party choosing to politicize the issue, ~95% of American school children were vaccinated against common diseases. Someone who objected to that didn't have a paramilitary squad track them down, they just had to homeschool, not travel to many countries, etc. so they bore the cost of their decision rather than everyone else. That's a pretty important difference compared to what allegedly happened in some parts of Rwanda.
    - ls15 5y ago
      > No, you're conflating two separate things to try to make a weak case appear stronger. Like using Polio for making the case for mandatory SARS-CoV-2 vaccines look stronger?
      - acdha 5y ago
        No, using it as a reminder that saying a high percentage of people have mild cases isn't a valid argument for saying we should just write off everyone else. Long COVID isn't as bad as Polio but that doesn't mean that it hasn't caused problems for millions of people or that we should be cavalier about assuming no long-term or worse problems will emerge. Getting people vaccinated before we relax restrictions is a cheap, easy, and highly effective way to reduce those risks.
alistairSH 5y ago
Vaccine mandates … everywhere have failed Smallpox and measles mandates worked. And which western/first world nations actually had COVID mandates? The US sure didn’t.
- ls15 5y ago
  > Smallpox and measles mandates worked. (Vaccine mandates) and (mandatory passports everywhere) have failed > And which western/first world nations actually had COVID mandates? The US sure didn’t. Germany, Austria, Australia, France, Italy, ...

by ls15 5y ago

acdha 5y ago

Yes, even for Omicron. Vaccinated people are far less likely to have severe cases at every age group — not being boosted means you’re less likely to avoid a case altogether but the T cell response is quite effective at helping you kick it faster. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e3.htm?s_cid=mm7104e3_w https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e3.htm?s_cid=mm... https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/01/21/cdc-studies-booster-shots-omicron/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/01/21/cdc-studies... https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-s... As for Rwanda, that’s moving the goalposts — there are many things which the Rwandan government has done which most of us do not approve of.

ls15 5y ago
> As for Rwanda, that’s moving the goalposts — there are many things which the Rwandan government has done which most of us do not approve of. I am only moving the goalpost back to its initial position. Vaccine mandates are draconian - at least when the data is so weak as for SARS-CoV-2.
- acdha 5y ago
  > I am only moving the goalpost back to its initial position. Vaccine mandates are draconian - at least when the data is so weak as for SARS-CoV-2. No, you're conflating two separate things to try to make a weak case appear stronger. Part of living in a society is accepting restrictions on your personal choices which impact those around you. Vaccination mandates are one of the big public health success stories since they reduce spread, load on the medical system, and the cost to society of having to care for people who are no longer as productive. Polio was significant asymptomatic, too — 70% of people had no symptoms and 25% had only mild symptoms, with a fatality rate under 1% — but we almost eradicated it by using public health measures like requiring vaccination to attend schools. The key difference is that these restrictions are linked to the activities which vaccines make safer: prior to the Republican Party choosing to politicize the issue, ~95% of American school children were vaccinated against common diseases. Someone who objected to that didn't have a paramilitary squad track them down, they just had to homeschool, not travel to many countries, etc. so they bore the cost of their decision rather than everyone else. That's a pretty important difference compared to what allegedly happened in some parts of Rwanda.
  - ls15 5y ago
    > No, you're conflating two separate things to try to make a weak case appear stronger. Like using Polio for making the case for mandatory SARS-CoV-2 vaccines look stronger?
    - acdha 5y ago
      No, using it as a reminder that saying a high percentage of people have mild cases isn't a valid argument for saying we should just write off everyone else. Long COVID isn't as bad as Polio but that doesn't mean that it hasn't caused problems for millions of people or that we should be cavalier about assuming no long-term or worse problems will emerge. Getting people vaccinated before we relax restrictions is a cheap, easy, and highly effective way to reduce those risks.

alistairSH 5y ago

Vaccine mandates … everywhere have failed Smallpox and measles mandates worked. And which western/first world nations actually had COVID mandates? The US sure didn’t.

ls15 5y ago
> Smallpox and measles mandates worked. (Vaccine mandates) and (mandatory passports everywhere) have failed > And which western/first world nations actually had COVID mandates? The US sure didn’t. Germany, Austria, Australia, France, Italy, ...