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Have you considered that you may have had more mild Omicron due to being vaccinated? It is true that breakthrough infections exist, especially in something as t

Have you considered that you may have had more mild Omicron due to being vaccinated? It is true that breakthrough infections exist, especially in something as transmissable as Omicron. However, the point has also been made that being vaccinated helps prevent more serious illness[1] which in turn can help prevent hospitals from collapsing under the weight of the severely ill. [1]: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effectiveness/why-measure-effectiveness/breakthrough-cases.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effective...

encryptluks2 5y ago
This is called moving goalposts. The vaccines application states it will prevent transmissions, not lesson the symptoms. If it is simply "lessoning" the symptoms which has not been my experience with Omicron, but not preventing transmission then the authorizations should be pulled until they can be resubmitted.
- VoidWhisperer 5y ago
  To some reasonable level, the vaccines do prevent transmission. However, no vaccine is perfect - just look at the flu vaccine - even if the strains picked for the vaccine for the year are right, some people will still get the flu. The vaccine helps to prepare your immune system to deal with the virus - in some cases that means it can fight it off entirely, or in other cases it will be able to fight it off quicker and your symptoms will be milder because your body is prepared.
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    The FDA didn't approve the vaccines under emergency use to lessen the symptoms, only to prevent transmission.
    - rsfern 5y ago
      That’s not correct, the clinical trials explicitly measured symptomatic disease and not transmission e.g. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04470427 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04470427
      - encryptluks2 5y ago
        The applications specifically said that they are for prevention.
        acdha 5y ago
        Prevention of the disease, not just spread.
        encryptluks2 5y ago
        People that are vaxxed are still getting the disease.
        acdha 5y ago
        At a lower rate and with far less severity, which is exactly what we expected based on the initial data. Omicron's arrival means that more people are getting sick but when they do, it's still considerably less severe — which is good because Omicron is sending more people to the hospital even though it's ~40-50% less likely to do so compared to Delta. I realize that you don't want to admit having been so wrong about this for so long but the evidence is very clear that the vaccines are safe and effective: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitalizations-vaccination https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitali...
        encryptluks2 5y ago
        Again, there you go quoting CDC ignoring the authorization which is for prevention and moving the goal posts quicker than QAnon. Some vaxxed people are in a constant state of Stockholm Syndrome. The evidence you speak of is unattainable at this point and VAERS is one of the only outlets which is significantly backlogged, and according to pro-vaxxers can't be trusted anymore because it doesn't fit their narrative.
- stinos 5y ago
  The vaccines application states it will prevent transmissions, not lesson the symptoms Did you get this from an official source? I mean, no-one should have stated this because it is simply not true, nor has been for most common vaccins out there. At least in my country none of the official sources nor epidemiologists nor virologists ever said this. They'd only go as close as stating 'can prevent transmission in xx% of cases' or something like that.
- chrononaut 5y ago
  > If it is simply "lessoning" the symptoms which has not been my experience with Omicron, but not preventing transmission then the authorizations should be pulled until they can be resubmitted. Are organizations still making policy decisions based on the specifics of the original application implications? Or from observation that it only notably reduces hospitalizations / symptom severity? If the former is the case, that would warrant clarity, but I also have no idea what a resubmission process looks like. Is that a one week turnaround? Or is it six months with no vaccines being able to be distributed?
- kspacewalk2 5y ago
  The clinical trials for Pfizer and Moderna were testing for severe outcomes, not transmission. The vaccines got emergency use authorization based on that. Some non-clinical studies suggested a drop in transmission (e.g. CDC study in spring 2021 which examined healthcare workers who got the jab early and were tested weekly), but it's clear now they were just picking up a transient effect, months long but wearing off thereafter. So the mRNA vaccines are doing exactly what they were trialled to do 1.5 years ago. What your local politicians and public health authorities misunderstood from that is their problem.
  - ls15 5y ago
    > What your local politicians and public health authorities misunderstood from that is their problem. AND also my problem.
twofornone 5y ago
Have you considered that 99%+ of cases are mild or asymptomatic and that this reasoning amounts to confirmation bias? Especially with Omicron? Moreso in healthy people under 50 who are orders of magnitude less likely to suffer severe illness or complications. The fact that you had mild symptoms, or any sort of symptoms for that matter, while vaccinated does not actually imply that you would have been substantially worse off without the vaccine, given the statistical likelihood of mild infection. This isn't the damn plague and it's high time we stopped acting like it was.
- ls15 5y ago
  > Have you considered that 99%+ of cases are mild or asymptomatic and that this reasoning amounts to confirmation bias? Especially with Omicron? Moreso in healthy people under 50 who are orders of magnitude less likely to suffer severe illness or complications. Omicron is 90% less deadly than delta for unvaccinated people and there is a 100% lower risk to need mechanical ventilation, according to this paper: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.11.22269045v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.11.22269045v... During the delta wave covid survivors had better immunization than people with only vaccination. This contradicts some of the mandates that are currently in place, such as in Germany, were people who previously recovered are still required to get a subsequent shot: https://news.yahoo.com/natural-immunity-more-potent-vaccines-200205306.html https://news.yahoo.com/natural-immunity-more-potent-vaccines... > This isn't the damn plague and it's high time we stopped acting like it was. During the pandemic I looked up information about the public reaction to the Spanish Flu. It was almost exactly the same, including vaccines with unclear efficacy and anti-mask groups. However, the Spanish Flu killed up to 50 million people while the world's population was only 1.6 billion and it only took a couple of months.
ls15 5y ago
> Have you considered that you may have had more mild Omicron due to being vaccinated? Yes, maybe. I think that there is no good data that supports that for people under 70 without co-morbidities. > However, the point has also been made that being vaccinated helps prevent more serious illness[1] which in turn can help prevent hospitals from collapsing under the weight of the severely ill. Recently I found out that in my country at the peak of the most deadly wave only 5% of patients in hospitals were admitted because of Covid. It does not prevent transmission, it does not stop hospitals from being overfilled and it does not stop symptomatic disease. What is a good science-based reason for mandatory vaccines against SARS-CoV-2 for everyone?

encryptluks2 5y ago

This is called moving goalposts. The vaccines application states it will prevent transmissions, not lesson the symptoms. If it is simply "lessoning" the symptoms which has not been my experience with Omicron, but not preventing transmission then the authorizations should be pulled until they can be resubmitted.

VoidWhisperer 5y ago
To some reasonable level, the vaccines do prevent transmission. However, no vaccine is perfect - just look at the flu vaccine - even if the strains picked for the vaccine for the year are right, some people will still get the flu. The vaccine helps to prepare your immune system to deal with the virus - in some cases that means it can fight it off entirely, or in other cases it will be able to fight it off quicker and your symptoms will be milder because your body is prepared.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  The FDA didn't approve the vaccines under emergency use to lessen the symptoms, only to prevent transmission.
  - rsfern 5y ago
    That’s not correct, the clinical trials explicitly measured symptomatic disease and not transmission e.g. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04470427 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04470427
    - encryptluks2 5y ago
      The applications specifically said that they are for prevention.
      - acdha 5y ago
        Prevention of the disease, not just spread.
        encryptluks2 5y ago
        People that are vaxxed are still getting the disease.
        acdha 5y ago
        At a lower rate and with far less severity, which is exactly what we expected based on the initial data. Omicron's arrival means that more people are getting sick but when they do, it's still considerably less severe — which is good because Omicron is sending more people to the hospital even though it's ~40-50% less likely to do so compared to Delta. I realize that you don't want to admit having been so wrong about this for so long but the evidence is very clear that the vaccines are safe and effective: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitalizations-vaccination https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitali...
        encryptluks2 5y ago
        Again, there you go quoting CDC ignoring the authorization which is for prevention and moving the goal posts quicker than QAnon. Some vaxxed people are in a constant state of Stockholm Syndrome. The evidence you speak of is unattainable at this point and VAERS is one of the only outlets which is significantly backlogged, and according to pro-vaxxers can't be trusted anymore because it doesn't fit their narrative.
stinos 5y ago
The vaccines application states it will prevent transmissions, not lesson the symptoms Did you get this from an official source? I mean, no-one should have stated this because it is simply not true, nor has been for most common vaccins out there. At least in my country none of the official sources nor epidemiologists nor virologists ever said this. They'd only go as close as stating 'can prevent transmission in xx% of cases' or something like that.
chrononaut 5y ago
> If it is simply "lessoning" the symptoms which has not been my experience with Omicron, but not preventing transmission then the authorizations should be pulled until they can be resubmitted. Are organizations still making policy decisions based on the specifics of the original application implications? Or from observation that it only notably reduces hospitalizations / symptom severity? If the former is the case, that would warrant clarity, but I also have no idea what a resubmission process looks like. Is that a one week turnaround? Or is it six months with no vaccines being able to be distributed?
kspacewalk2 5y ago
The clinical trials for Pfizer and Moderna were testing for severe outcomes, not transmission. The vaccines got emergency use authorization based on that. Some non-clinical studies suggested a drop in transmission (e.g. CDC study in spring 2021 which examined healthcare workers who got the jab early and were tested weekly), but it's clear now they were just picking up a transient effect, months long but wearing off thereafter. So the mRNA vaccines are doing exactly what they were trialled to do 1.5 years ago. What your local politicians and public health authorities misunderstood from that is their problem.
- ls15 5y ago
  > What your local politicians and public health authorities misunderstood from that is their problem. AND also my problem.

twofornone 5y ago

Have you considered that 99%+ of cases are mild or asymptomatic and that this reasoning amounts to confirmation bias? Especially with Omicron? Moreso in healthy people under 50 who are orders of magnitude less likely to suffer severe illness or complications. The fact that you had mild symptoms, or any sort of symptoms for that matter, while vaccinated does not actually imply that you would have been substantially worse off without the vaccine, given the statistical likelihood of mild infection. This isn't the damn plague and it's high time we stopped acting like it was.

ls15 5y ago
> Have you considered that 99%+ of cases are mild or asymptomatic and that this reasoning amounts to confirmation bias? Especially with Omicron? Moreso in healthy people under 50 who are orders of magnitude less likely to suffer severe illness or complications. Omicron is 90% less deadly than delta for unvaccinated people and there is a 100% lower risk to need mechanical ventilation, according to this paper: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.11.22269045v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.11.22269045v... During the delta wave covid survivors had better immunization than people with only vaccination. This contradicts some of the mandates that are currently in place, such as in Germany, were people who previously recovered are still required to get a subsequent shot: https://news.yahoo.com/natural-immunity-more-potent-vaccines-200205306.html https://news.yahoo.com/natural-immunity-more-potent-vaccines... > This isn't the damn plague and it's high time we stopped acting like it was. During the pandemic I looked up information about the public reaction to the Spanish Flu. It was almost exactly the same, including vaccines with unclear efficacy and anti-mask groups. However, the Spanish Flu killed up to 50 million people while the world's population was only 1.6 billion and it only took a couple of months.

ls15 5y ago

> Have you considered that you may have had more mild Omicron due to being vaccinated? Yes, maybe. I think that there is no good data that supports that for people under 70 without co-morbidities. > However, the point has also been made that being vaccinated helps prevent more serious illness[1] which in turn can help prevent hospitals from collapsing under the weight of the severely ill. Recently I found out that in my country at the peak of the most deadly wave only 5% of patients in hospitals were admitted because of Covid. It does not prevent transmission, it does not stop hospitals from being overfilled and it does not stop symptomatic disease. What is a good science-based reason for mandatory vaccines against SARS-CoV-2 for everyone?