4 ms·

Yet it didn't have any of the dynamic nature of Objective-C which made the attempt to replace Objective-C in OS X with Java a failure.

pjmlp 5y ago
What? There was no attempt to replace Objective-C with Java on OS X. Apple was unsure if the strange look from Objective-C would ever appeal to the Object Pascal/C++ communities of Apple developers, thus they used Java wave as plan B, in case Objective-C was rejected by them. As this did not happen, there was no reason to keep plan B around.
- protomyth 5y ago
  There was no attempt to replace Objective-C with Java on OS X. I would say there was a heck of an attempt with the Java-Cocoa bridge that didn't do well because Java didn't have a lot of the dynamic nature of Objective-C. They certainly to my eyes as a developer tried to push Java.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    As you wish, Java-Cocoa bridge could have never replaced Objective-C, when writing Objective-C was still part of the game to actually use it. Do you actually believe that Jobs liked Java, when Apple was created on top of Object Pascal and C++, and then he was responsible for bringing Brad Cox to NeXT?
    - protomyth 5y ago
      Yeah, given the crap they were sending in the monthly discs to developers at the time. They certainly seemed like we should of took Java seriously. I was rather annoyed given I had learned Objective-C on NeXTSTEP. I'm glad that someone realized it was not substitute, but they did push it. Jobs hated it later, but he changed his mind on things fairly often given just looking at iPod features.
      - pjmlp 5y ago
        How could Java be a substitute when Cocoa bridge only allowed for a subset of OS X frameworks to be called from it? Java was already available on System 7.
        protomyth 5y ago
        Well, it sure didn't, but the messaging in those CD-ROMs was pretty obvious and I suppose they would have expanded it if someone didn't realize it was a lost cause. I didn't develop for Macs until Apple bought NeXT, so I don't know what was available for System 7.
        pjmlp 5y ago
        Sometimes one understands what they think they want to understand. Java was definitely not on the picture when Apple went to CERN doing their OS X marketing sessions. In fact, you now made me dig out some stuff. https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Java/Conceptual/Java14Development/00-Intro/JavaDevelopment.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30001142 https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Ja... https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/LanguageIntegration/LanguageIntegration.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/10000112-SW1 https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Co... > This document discusses issues that arise when writing Java applications with Cocoa, which is implemented in Objective-C. No Java here on the OS X announcement: https://youtu.be/SjlLG1EzJ2k?t=4450 https://youtu.be/SjlLG1EzJ2k?t=4450 The only message was Java being first party on OS X, as in the System 7 days, the JVM was not from Apple rather a third party. Thus the announcement at JavaONE 2000. https://www.javacoffeebreak.com/articles/javaone00/index.html https://www.javacoffeebreak.com/articles/javaone00/index.htm... You will not find in those CDs anything like this: > Swift is a successor to both the C and Objective-C languages. It includes low-level primitives such as types, flow control, and operators. It also provides object-oriented features such as classes, protocols, and generics, giving Cocoa and Cocoa Touch developers the performance and power they demand. https://developer.apple.com/swift/ https://developer.apple.com/swift/

pjmlp 5y ago

What? There was no attempt to replace Objective-C with Java on OS X. Apple was unsure if the strange look from Objective-C would ever appeal to the Object Pascal/C++ communities of Apple developers, thus they used Java wave as plan B, in case Objective-C was rejected by them. As this did not happen, there was no reason to keep plan B around.

protomyth 5y ago
There was no attempt to replace Objective-C with Java on OS X. I would say there was a heck of an attempt with the Java-Cocoa bridge that didn't do well because Java didn't have a lot of the dynamic nature of Objective-C. They certainly to my eyes as a developer tried to push Java.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  As you wish, Java-Cocoa bridge could have never replaced Objective-C, when writing Objective-C was still part of the game to actually use it. Do you actually believe that Jobs liked Java, when Apple was created on top of Object Pascal and C++, and then he was responsible for bringing Brad Cox to NeXT?
  - protomyth 5y ago
    Yeah, given the crap they were sending in the monthly discs to developers at the time. They certainly seemed like we should of took Java seriously. I was rather annoyed given I had learned Objective-C on NeXTSTEP. I'm glad that someone realized it was not substitute, but they did push it. Jobs hated it later, but he changed his mind on things fairly often given just looking at iPod features.
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      How could Java be a substitute when Cocoa bridge only allowed for a subset of OS X frameworks to be called from it? Java was already available on System 7.
      - protomyth 5y ago
        Well, it sure didn't, but the messaging in those CD-ROMs was pretty obvious and I suppose they would have expanded it if someone didn't realize it was a lost cause. I didn't develop for Macs until Apple bought NeXT, so I don't know what was available for System 7.
        pjmlp 5y ago
        Sometimes one understands what they think they want to understand. Java was definitely not on the picture when Apple went to CERN doing their OS X marketing sessions. In fact, you now made me dig out some stuff. https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Java/Conceptual/Java14Development/00-Intro/JavaDevelopment.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30001142 https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Ja... https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/LanguageIntegration/LanguageIntegration.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/10000112-SW1 https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Co... > This document discusses issues that arise when writing Java applications with Cocoa, which is implemented in Objective-C. No Java here on the OS X announcement: https://youtu.be/SjlLG1EzJ2k?t=4450 https://youtu.be/SjlLG1EzJ2k?t=4450 The only message was Java being first party on OS X, as in the System 7 days, the JVM was not from Apple rather a third party. Thus the announcement at JavaONE 2000. https://www.javacoffeebreak.com/articles/javaone00/index.html https://www.javacoffeebreak.com/articles/javaone00/index.htm... You will not find in those CDs anything like this: > Swift is a successor to both the C and Objective-C languages. It includes low-level primitives such as types, flow control, and operators. It also provides object-oriented features such as classes, protocols, and generics, giving Cocoa and Cocoa Touch developers the performance and power they demand. https://developer.apple.com/swift/ https://developer.apple.com/swift/