11 ms·

I just recovered from Omicron and I was vaccinated. I am not sure what your grandparents are going to tell me. That I should get another shot of the vaccine tha

by ls15 5y ago

I just recovered from Omicron and I was vaccinated. I am not sure what your grandparents are going to tell me. That I should get another shot of the vaccine that did not prevent the disease?

acdha 5y ago
That you should be glad that your vaccination made you an order of magnitude less likely to have a severe case? Polio didn’t kill most people either.
- ls15 5y ago
  > That you should be glad that your vaccination made you an order of magnitude less likely to have a severe case? For Omicron? And even if. It is great if it is a result of my personal decision to get vaccinated. It is awful to force others to get vaccinated, especially if most claims regarding efficacy get weakened a lot over time and people ignore that. Vaccine mandates and mandatory passports everywhere have failed and we should be happy about that. Who also supports forced vaccinations like in Rwanda? https://www.dw.com/en/rwanda-forcibly-vaccinating-people-against-covid-victims-say/a-60413978 https://www.dw.com/en/rwanda-forcibly-vaccinating-people-aga...
  - acdha 5y ago
    Yes, even for Omicron. Vaccinated people are far less likely to have severe cases at every age group — not being boosted means you’re less likely to avoid a case altogether but the T cell response is quite effective at helping you kick it faster. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e3.htm?s_cid=mm7104e3_w https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e3.htm?s_cid=mm... https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/01/21/cdc-studies-booster-shots-omicron/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/01/21/cdc-studies... https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-s... As for Rwanda, that’s moving the goalposts — there are many things which the Rwandan government has done which most of us do not approve of.
    - ls15 5y ago
      > As for Rwanda, that’s moving the goalposts — there are many things which the Rwandan government has done which most of us do not approve of. I am only moving the goalpost back to its initial position. Vaccine mandates are draconian - at least when the data is so weak as for SARS-CoV-2.
      - acdha 5y ago
        > I am only moving the goalpost back to its initial position. Vaccine mandates are draconian - at least when the data is so weak as for SARS-CoV-2. No, you're conflating two separate things to try to make a weak case appear stronger. Part of living in a society is accepting restrictions on your personal choices which impact those around you. Vaccination mandates are one of the big public health success stories since they reduce spread, load on the medical system, and the cost to society of having to care for people who are no longer as productive. Polio was significant asymptomatic, too — 70% of people had no symptoms and 25% had only mild symptoms, with a fatality rate under 1% — but we almost eradicated it by using public health measures like requiring vaccination to attend schools. The key difference is that these restrictions are linked to the activities which vaccines make safer: prior to the Republican Party choosing to politicize the issue, ~95% of American school children were vaccinated against common diseases. Someone who objected to that didn't have a paramilitary squad track them down, they just had to homeschool, not travel to many countries, etc. so they bore the cost of their decision rather than everyone else. That's a pretty important difference compared to what allegedly happened in some parts of Rwanda.
        ls15 5y ago
        > No, you're conflating two separate things to try to make a weak case appear stronger. Like using Polio for making the case for mandatory SARS-CoV-2 vaccines look stronger?
        acdha 5y ago
        No, using it as a reminder that saying a high percentage of people have mild cases isn't a valid argument for saying we should just write off everyone else. Long COVID isn't as bad as Polio but that doesn't mean that it hasn't caused problems for millions of people or that we should be cavalier about assuming no long-term or worse problems will emerge. Getting people vaccinated before we relax restrictions is a cheap, easy, and highly effective way to reduce those risks.
  - alistairSH 5y ago
    Vaccine mandates … everywhere have failed Smallpox and measles mandates worked. And which western/first world nations actually had COVID mandates? The US sure didn’t.
    - ls15 5y ago
      > Smallpox and measles mandates worked. (Vaccine mandates) and (mandatory passports everywhere) have failed > And which western/first world nations actually had COVID mandates? The US sure didn’t. Germany, Austria, Australia, France, Italy, ...
VoidWhisperer 5y ago
Have you considered that you may have had more mild Omicron due to being vaccinated? It is true that breakthrough infections exist, especially in something as transmissable as Omicron. However, the point has also been made that being vaccinated helps prevent more serious illness[1] which in turn can help prevent hospitals from collapsing under the weight of the severely ill. [1]: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effectiveness/why-measure-effectiveness/breakthrough-cases.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effective...
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  This is called moving goalposts. The vaccines application states it will prevent transmissions, not lesson the symptoms. If it is simply "lessoning" the symptoms which has not been my experience with Omicron, but not preventing transmission then the authorizations should be pulled until they can be resubmitted.
  - VoidWhisperer 5y ago
    To some reasonable level, the vaccines do prevent transmission. However, no vaccine is perfect - just look at the flu vaccine - even if the strains picked for the vaccine for the year are right, some people will still get the flu. The vaccine helps to prepare your immune system to deal with the virus - in some cases that means it can fight it off entirely, or in other cases it will be able to fight it off quicker and your symptoms will be milder because your body is prepared.
    - encryptluks2 5y ago
      The FDA didn't approve the vaccines under emergency use to lessen the symptoms, only to prevent transmission.
      - rsfern 5y ago
        That’s not correct, the clinical trials explicitly measured symptomatic disease and not transmission e.g. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04470427 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04470427
encryptluks2 5y ago
Gotta topper up once a month. That boosting is all about recharging your battery to fight whatever else is out there lurking around every corner just waiting for you. God this is ridiculous. The vaccines were approved to prevent transmission and they didn't do that, but now Pfizer and the likes will make sure that they get their money's worth and then some.
- acdha 5y ago
  The vaccines were approved to keep people from dying, with a secondary goal of REDUCING spread. The experts were very clear that vaccinated people would spread it less than the unvaccinated, and all of the data shows that’s correct. Omicron didn’t exist when that data was being assessed, so think about it like someone in 2000 saying RSA 1024 was good encryption — they were hardly in the pocket of big crypto when they updated that to RSA 2048 a few years later after the attacks got better.
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    Have you read the EUA?
    - acdha 5y ago
      Have you? You’re just regurgitating right-wing talking points, conspicuously short on sources or demonstrated understanding. When you do read the lengthy material at https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/comirnaty-and-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coro... note that the approvals are based on fighting the disease. Reducing transmission — at which the vaccines were clearly highly effective prior to Omicron — is one part of that but an even more important part is preventing severe outcomes. Even with Omicron, the vaccines are highly effective at keeping you out of the hospital and even better at keeping you out of the ICU. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-s...
      - 5y ago
rfrey 5y ago
Omicron is very resistant to the antibody response of the vaccines - the antibodies are supposed to cover the protein spikes which latch onto and enable infection of cells. The t-cell response to infected cells learned from the vaccine, though, is very effective. Which is why vaccinated people still get infected (at a lower rate) but are many times less likely to get very sick, and almost none end up in ICU. The vaccines are effective.
dessant 5y ago
It ok to be ignorant, but you should think twice about that smugness. You are wrong, and you have very little excuse for being this wrong after two years of living in a pandemic.
- dns_snek 5y ago
  The comment you replied to is somewhat common factual description of events of someone who was fully vaccinated and still caught covid, which lead them to decide not to get booster shots in the future. How's that "wrong" or ignorant?

by ls15 5y ago

I just recovered from Omicron and I was vaccinated. I am not sure what your grandparents are going to tell me. That I should get another shot of the vaccine that did not prevent the disease?

acdha 5y ago

That you should be glad that your vaccination made you an order of magnitude less likely to have a severe case? Polio didn’t kill most people either.

ls15 5y ago
> That you should be glad that your vaccination made you an order of magnitude less likely to have a severe case? For Omicron? And even if. It is great if it is a result of my personal decision to get vaccinated. It is awful to force others to get vaccinated, especially if most claims regarding efficacy get weakened a lot over time and people ignore that. Vaccine mandates and mandatory passports everywhere have failed and we should be happy about that. Who also supports forced vaccinations like in Rwanda? https://www.dw.com/en/rwanda-forcibly-vaccinating-people-against-covid-victims-say/a-60413978 https://www.dw.com/en/rwanda-forcibly-vaccinating-people-aga...
- acdha 5y ago
  Yes, even for Omicron. Vaccinated people are far less likely to have severe cases at every age group — not being boosted means you’re less likely to avoid a case altogether but the T cell response is quite effective at helping you kick it faster. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e3.htm?s_cid=mm7104e3_w https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e3.htm?s_cid=mm... https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/01/21/cdc-studies-booster-shots-omicron/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/01/21/cdc-studies... https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-s... As for Rwanda, that’s moving the goalposts — there are many things which the Rwandan government has done which most of us do not approve of.
  - ls15 5y ago
    > As for Rwanda, that’s moving the goalposts — there are many things which the Rwandan government has done which most of us do not approve of. I am only moving the goalpost back to its initial position. Vaccine mandates are draconian - at least when the data is so weak as for SARS-CoV-2.
    - acdha 5y ago
      > I am only moving the goalpost back to its initial position. Vaccine mandates are draconian - at least when the data is so weak as for SARS-CoV-2. No, you're conflating two separate things to try to make a weak case appear stronger. Part of living in a society is accepting restrictions on your personal choices which impact those around you. Vaccination mandates are one of the big public health success stories since they reduce spread, load on the medical system, and the cost to society of having to care for people who are no longer as productive. Polio was significant asymptomatic, too — 70% of people had no symptoms and 25% had only mild symptoms, with a fatality rate under 1% — but we almost eradicated it by using public health measures like requiring vaccination to attend schools. The key difference is that these restrictions are linked to the activities which vaccines make safer: prior to the Republican Party choosing to politicize the issue, ~95% of American school children were vaccinated against common diseases. Someone who objected to that didn't have a paramilitary squad track them down, they just had to homeschool, not travel to many countries, etc. so they bore the cost of their decision rather than everyone else. That's a pretty important difference compared to what allegedly happened in some parts of Rwanda.
      - ls15 5y ago
        > No, you're conflating two separate things to try to make a weak case appear stronger. Like using Polio for making the case for mandatory SARS-CoV-2 vaccines look stronger?
        acdha 5y ago
        No, using it as a reminder that saying a high percentage of people have mild cases isn't a valid argument for saying we should just write off everyone else. Long COVID isn't as bad as Polio but that doesn't mean that it hasn't caused problems for millions of people or that we should be cavalier about assuming no long-term or worse problems will emerge. Getting people vaccinated before we relax restrictions is a cheap, easy, and highly effective way to reduce those risks.
- alistairSH 5y ago
  Vaccine mandates … everywhere have failed Smallpox and measles mandates worked. And which western/first world nations actually had COVID mandates? The US sure didn’t.
  - ls15 5y ago
    > Smallpox and measles mandates worked. (Vaccine mandates) and (mandatory passports everywhere) have failed > And which western/first world nations actually had COVID mandates? The US sure didn’t. Germany, Austria, Australia, France, Italy, ...

VoidWhisperer 5y ago

Have you considered that you may have had more mild Omicron due to being vaccinated? It is true that breakthrough infections exist, especially in something as transmissable as Omicron. However, the point has also been made that being vaccinated helps prevent more serious illness[1] which in turn can help prevent hospitals from collapsing under the weight of the severely ill. [1]: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effectiveness/why-measure-effectiveness/breakthrough-cases.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effective...

encryptluks2 5y ago
This is called moving goalposts. The vaccines application states it will prevent transmissions, not lesson the symptoms. If it is simply "lessoning" the symptoms which has not been my experience with Omicron, but not preventing transmission then the authorizations should be pulled until they can be resubmitted.
- VoidWhisperer 5y ago
  To some reasonable level, the vaccines do prevent transmission. However, no vaccine is perfect - just look at the flu vaccine - even if the strains picked for the vaccine for the year are right, some people will still get the flu. The vaccine helps to prepare your immune system to deal with the virus - in some cases that means it can fight it off entirely, or in other cases it will be able to fight it off quicker and your symptoms will be milder because your body is prepared.
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    The FDA didn't approve the vaccines under emergency use to lessen the symptoms, only to prevent transmission.
    - rsfern 5y ago
      That’s not correct, the clinical trials explicitly measured symptomatic disease and not transmission e.g. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04470427 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04470427

encryptluks2 5y ago

Gotta topper up once a month. That boosting is all about recharging your battery to fight whatever else is out there lurking around every corner just waiting for you. God this is ridiculous. The vaccines were approved to prevent transmission and they didn't do that, but now Pfizer and the likes will make sure that they get their money's worth and then some.

acdha 5y ago
The vaccines were approved to keep people from dying, with a secondary goal of REDUCING spread. The experts were very clear that vaccinated people would spread it less than the unvaccinated, and all of the data shows that’s correct. Omicron didn’t exist when that data was being assessed, so think about it like someone in 2000 saying RSA 1024 was good encryption — they were hardly in the pocket of big crypto when they updated that to RSA 2048 a few years later after the attacks got better.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  Have you read the EUA?
  - acdha 5y ago
    Have you? You’re just regurgitating right-wing talking points, conspicuously short on sources or demonstrated understanding. When you do read the lengthy material at https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/comirnaty-and-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coro... note that the approvals are based on fighting the disease. Reducing transmission — at which the vaccines were clearly highly effective prior to Omicron — is one part of that but an even more important part is preventing severe outcomes. Even with Omicron, the vaccines are highly effective at keeping you out of the hospital and even better at keeping you out of the ICU. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-s...
    - 5y ago

rfrey 5y ago

Omicron is very resistant to the antibody response of the vaccines - the antibodies are supposed to cover the protein spikes which latch onto and enable infection of cells. The t-cell response to infected cells learned from the vaccine, though, is very effective. Which is why vaccinated people still get infected (at a lower rate) but are many times less likely to get very sick, and almost none end up in ICU. The vaccines are effective.

dessant 5y ago

It ok to be ignorant, but you should think twice about that smugness. You are wrong, and you have very little excuse for being this wrong after two years of living in a pandemic.

dns_snek 5y ago
The comment you replied to is somewhat common factual description of events of someone who was fully vaccinated and still caught covid, which lead them to decide not to get booster shots in the future. How's that "wrong" or ignorant?