4 ms·

The report you just linked doesn't show the raw numbers of people in the hospital, it shows the proportionate rates, which is exactly what I just addressed. Mo

The report you just linked doesn't show the raw numbers of people in the hospital, it shows the proportionate rates, which is exactly what I just addressed. Most people in the hospitals for Covid are vaccinated. And I'm sorry, I thought this was a thread about Ireland?

pizza234 5y ago
> Most people in the hospitals for Covid are vaccinated. Again, the fact that the numbers don't reconcile still stands, and without clarifications, that table and any references are meaningless. From page 7: - Rates Admitted to Hospital per 100,000: All adults, Fully vaccinated: 39.0 - Northern Ireland population: 1.9 millions Expected admitted in the whole N.I: (39 * 1900 / 100) = 741 - Total admissions: All adults, Fully vaccinated: 493. The numbers 741 and 493 don't match. The rest of the table is inconsistent as well; for example, the proportions between fully and non vaccinated, between the rate per 100k (right), and the absolute values (left), are inconsistent between each other. Futher, on the second page: > During this 4 week period there were 790 hospital admissions, 36 (4.6%) of which had received a third dose. The number 790 and 36 are other two who add to the pile of inconsistency. Until everything is explained with exactness, that report is essentially garbage. > And I'm sorry, I thought this was a thread about Ireland? In absence of correct data about N.I., the CDC report is a reasonable source, also by mean of being considerably larger scale. It can be acceptable to refute it when referring to Northern Ireland, but in this case valid data is required. --- Additionally, about this: > Most people in the hospitals for Covid are vaccinated. This is not an indictment against the vaccines, they prevent hospitalization, but the sheer number of vaccinated people still means they're the majority in the hospitals and ICUs, and the unvaccinated are a minority across the board. This is a common mathematical mistake; see conditional probability notions. To explain the mistake using extremes, if all the population except one was vaccinated, and one not vaccinated, hospitals would have 100% of vaccinated people, but the conclusion that because of that being vaccinated is less effective than not being vaccinated, is wrong; one needs other variables to make this conclusion.
- prohobo 5y ago
  You're grasping at all sorts of straws here. Never said being vaccinated is less effective than not being vaccinated, an absolutely insane takeaway from what I've said. Now the official government data from the UK is bullshit, and the CDC is a better source to explain what's happening in Ireland? Are you kidding me? The issue is that if you're gonna try to blame unvaccinated people for your problems, they should actually be the source of your problems - which they're not.
jamps 5y ago
Well, if we look at their neighbors, Scotland, it is showing that even the proportion rate of positive case is lower with the unvaxed. Page 38 https://publichealthscotland.scot/media/11223/22-01-19-covid19-winter_publication_report.pdf https://publichealthscotland.scot/media/11223/22-01-19-covid...

pizza234 5y ago

> Most people in the hospitals for Covid are vaccinated. Again, the fact that the numbers don't reconcile still stands, and without clarifications, that table and any references are meaningless. From page 7: - Rates Admitted to Hospital per 100,000: All adults, Fully vaccinated: 39.0 - Northern Ireland population: 1.9 millions Expected admitted in the whole N.I: (39 * 1900 / 100) = 741 - Total admissions: All adults, Fully vaccinated: 493. The numbers 741 and 493 don't match. The rest of the table is inconsistent as well; for example, the proportions between fully and non vaccinated, between the rate per 100k (right), and the absolute values (left), are inconsistent between each other. Futher, on the second page: > During this 4 week period there were 790 hospital admissions, 36 (4.6%) of which had received a third dose. The number 790 and 36 are other two who add to the pile of inconsistency. Until everything is explained with exactness, that report is essentially garbage. > And I'm sorry, I thought this was a thread about Ireland? In absence of correct data about N.I., the CDC report is a reasonable source, also by mean of being considerably larger scale. It can be acceptable to refute it when referring to Northern Ireland, but in this case valid data is required. --- Additionally, about this: > Most people in the hospitals for Covid are vaccinated. This is not an indictment against the vaccines, they prevent hospitalization, but the sheer number of vaccinated people still means they're the majority in the hospitals and ICUs, and the unvaccinated are a minority across the board. This is a common mathematical mistake; see conditional probability notions. To explain the mistake using extremes, if all the population except one was vaccinated, and one not vaccinated, hospitals would have 100% of vaccinated people, but the conclusion that because of that being vaccinated is less effective than not being vaccinated, is wrong; one needs other variables to make this conclusion.

prohobo 5y ago
You're grasping at all sorts of straws here. Never said being vaccinated is less effective than not being vaccinated, an absolutely insane takeaway from what I've said. Now the official government data from the UK is bullshit, and the CDC is a better source to explain what's happening in Ireland? Are you kidding me? The issue is that if you're gonna try to blame unvaccinated people for your problems, they should actually be the source of your problems - which they're not.

jamps 5y ago

Well, if we look at their neighbors, Scotland, it is showing that even the proportion rate of positive case is lower with the unvaxed. Page 38 https://publichealthscotland.scot/media/11223/22-01-19-covid19-winter_publication_report.pdf https://publichealthscotland.scot/media/11223/22-01-19-covid...