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This sounds wonderful. But one argument used against 50/50 and in favor of asymmetric time is "kids need continuity". This inevitably favors the mother. "60/40"

This sounds wonderful. But one argument used against 50/50 and in favor of asymmetric time is "kids need continuity". This inevitably favors the mother. "60/40" means the father gets every other weekend and one night a week. Numerically this works out to 80/20 and even young children are quite aware of who their real parent is. It is horrible but it is also SOP for most jurisdictions in the US, and I am not being hyperbolic when I say it's a real, first-world humanitarian crisis. Children do not fair well without fathers, and yet our system degrades the very notion of fatherhood every chance it gets. Furthermore, the bad actors that populate family courts - judges, lawyers, police, therapists, mediators, visitation center workers - they all know the score and as a father you are truly a second-class citizen. You see the children at the whim of your wife, and literally no-one gives a single shit. Why the system is not 50/50 is beyond me, because the argument for continuity is absolutely ridiculous on its face. The real reason it continues is that in family court mothers have far more rights than fathers. Full stop. It's sexist, it's harmful to the children, and yes, I'll even say it's harmful for the father (although you're not supposed to say that, and if you do the system assumes you're lying to be manipulative). This 60/40 aka 80/20 situation is the good outcome for most fathers. It really only gets worse from there. If you give the judge attitude, they will have no problem putting you on supervised visitation indefinitely.

coredog64 5y ago
50/50 usually means no child support, if you’re looking for reasons why it’s uncommon.
- boppo1 5y ago
  Do you mean the mothers fight for more custody so they can nab an income?
  - Talanes 5y ago
    Or they don't trust the father to put in his fair share of doctor's visits, buying clothes, etc. The upside of paying child support is that the other party is assumedly taking point on all of those expenses.
- Muromec 5y ago
  In the Netherlands you can still pay child support with 50/50 if there is difference in income, just less of it.
jimbob45 5y ago
My buddy used to do 80/20 but on alternating months. So he’s go to his dad’s on weekends on one month and then the next month he’d do weeks at his dad’s. Worked reasonably well IMHO. Guess I should ask him how he felt.
kodah 5y ago
> This 60/40 aka 80/20 situation is the good outcome for most fathers. It really only gets worse from there. If you give the judge attitude, they will have no problem putting you on supervised visitation indefinitely. This is incredibly sad. Edit: I was curious and I shouldn't have been: https://www.custodyxchange.com/topics/research/dads-custody-time-2018.php https://www.custodyxchange.com/topics/research/dads-custody-...
- actually_a_dog 5y ago
  I've heard people say a couple things about this that I don't know are true. One is that fathers don't get custody because they don't ask for it. The other is that most custody arrangements are worked out before anyone ever steps into a courtroom. Does anybody know if these things are fact or fiction? If either or both of those are true, it seems like you can't really blame "the system" for these results.
  - kodah 5y ago
    If you read some of the synopsis at the bottom it explains it. It's a mix of laws and societal attitudes. This data is also further simplified: > The percentages in the study reflect cases in which both parents want custody and no complicating circumstances exist ― such as criminal convictions or long-distance separation. It demonstrates the most commonly awarded visitation schedules given to a noncustodial parent by state.
  - makomk 5y ago
    There's a lot of outright misinformation out there - one of the commoner misleading claims is that 50% of fathers who seek custody get it, usually used to trick people into thinking that actually both parents are treated equally and all the complaints are just from men thinking "equality" should mean they get better treatment. The thing is, that 50% figure includes joint custody which can be as little as one weekend a fortnight with the kids in some juristictions, and I think also cases in which the kids' mother isn't actually seeking custody. So a better framing of the same stat is that amongst a self-selected sample of those fathers who think they stand the best chance of obtaining custody, half fail to even get joint custody (which could well mean never seeing their kids again, especially in juristictions where visitation isn't well enforced). That's probably a good explaination for why few fight for it.
jquery 5y ago
It used to be women being stuck in bad marriages because otherwise they would lose their source of income. Increasingly, it's men stuck in bad marriages because otherwise they will lose access to their children.
- javajosh 5y ago
  Or worse: men who don't realize how dangerous divorce is to their relationship with their children, and believe that the system is basically fair. It is not.
Brybry 5y ago
Anecdotally, the system was 50/50 for my sister when she got divorced. There was definitely no court bias for the mother, which was a surprise given that this is the popular culture stereotype. And child support was purely formula based. The most annoying thing was domiciliary parent designation, even with 50/50 joint custody, as the domiciliary parent had more decision power which allowed for unnecessary drama. One thing to note is that all of this is state (and country) specific and states might vary significantly.

coredog64 5y ago

50/50 usually means no child support, if you’re looking for reasons why it’s uncommon.

boppo1 5y ago
Do you mean the mothers fight for more custody so they can nab an income?
- Talanes 5y ago
  Or they don't trust the father to put in his fair share of doctor's visits, buying clothes, etc. The upside of paying child support is that the other party is assumedly taking point on all of those expenses.
Muromec 5y ago
In the Netherlands you can still pay child support with 50/50 if there is difference in income, just less of it.

jimbob45 5y ago

My buddy used to do 80/20 but on alternating months. So he’s go to his dad’s on weekends on one month and then the next month he’d do weeks at his dad’s. Worked reasonably well IMHO. Guess I should ask him how he felt.

kodah 5y ago

> This 60/40 aka 80/20 situation is the good outcome for most fathers. It really only gets worse from there. If you give the judge attitude, they will have no problem putting you on supervised visitation indefinitely. This is incredibly sad. Edit: I was curious and I shouldn't have been: https://www.custodyxchange.com/topics/research/dads-custody-time-2018.php https://www.custodyxchange.com/topics/research/dads-custody-...

actually_a_dog 5y ago
I've heard people say a couple things about this that I don't know are true. One is that fathers don't get custody because they don't ask for it. The other is that most custody arrangements are worked out before anyone ever steps into a courtroom. Does anybody know if these things are fact or fiction? If either or both of those are true, it seems like you can't really blame "the system" for these results.
- kodah 5y ago
  If you read some of the synopsis at the bottom it explains it. It's a mix of laws and societal attitudes. This data is also further simplified: > The percentages in the study reflect cases in which both parents want custody and no complicating circumstances exist ― such as criminal convictions or long-distance separation. It demonstrates the most commonly awarded visitation schedules given to a noncustodial parent by state.
- makomk 5y ago
  There's a lot of outright misinformation out there - one of the commoner misleading claims is that 50% of fathers who seek custody get it, usually used to trick people into thinking that actually both parents are treated equally and all the complaints are just from men thinking "equality" should mean they get better treatment. The thing is, that 50% figure includes joint custody which can be as little as one weekend a fortnight with the kids in some juristictions, and I think also cases in which the kids' mother isn't actually seeking custody. So a better framing of the same stat is that amongst a self-selected sample of those fathers who think they stand the best chance of obtaining custody, half fail to even get joint custody (which could well mean never seeing their kids again, especially in juristictions where visitation isn't well enforced). That's probably a good explaination for why few fight for it.

jquery 5y ago

It used to be women being stuck in bad marriages because otherwise they would lose their source of income. Increasingly, it's men stuck in bad marriages because otherwise they will lose access to their children.

javajosh 5y ago
Or worse: men who don't realize how dangerous divorce is to their relationship with their children, and believe that the system is basically fair. It is not.

Brybry 5y ago

Anecdotally, the system was 50/50 for my sister when she got divorced. There was definitely no court bias for the mother, which was a surprise given that this is the popular culture stereotype. And child support was purely formula based. The most annoying thing was domiciliary parent designation, even with 50/50 joint custody, as the domiciliary parent had more decision power which allowed for unnecessary drama. One thing to note is that all of this is state (and country) specific and states might vary significantly.