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There's something truly magical to me about a self-sufficient "world" you can understand and hold in your head and hand. Where does my water come from? It come

by cmason 5y ago

There's something truly magical to me about a self-sufficient "world" you can understand and hold in your head and hand. Where does my water come from? It comes from the rain and these tanks. Where is the power generated? On those solar panels and these batteries. I know the limits of this world; I work with them, not in spite of them. Having ocean sailed a tiny bit myself, I have such respect for the hundred rabbits crew. Not all of the choices they made are ones I would, but they're respectable and defensible. Moreover, they're explained plainly without judgement: these are their choices and are offered only in the hope they will be useful. And with a playful and vivid tone that is a joy to read. I dream of a life like this and feel privileged to be able to share in theirs vicariously.

nicbou 5y ago
It gives you a mix of fear and confidence. Your little setup is all there, unaffected by greater forces outside your front gate. The cost of energy won't change and your money isn't tied in a market or another. Like you said, it's all right there with you. On the other hand, you're the point of failure for this machine. You are responsible for it, and you have to keep it running. You can't get sick or tired because you're not part of a system large enough to cut you some slack. A common theme in stories about self sufficiency is something breaking and the hardships that ensue from not having anyone to help.
it_does_follow 5y ago
> these tanks > those solar panels > these batteries The problem with these "self-sufficient" narratives is they're always tethered to industrial society. Having the limit of your understanding be a "solar panel" is no different than it being a wall socket. The "world" itself here, the boat in this case, is manufactured in a factory. That's not to say I don't also find this stuff interesting, but don't confuse being able to hold your breath a long time for having gills. I find free diving fascinating, but there is no need in that community to claim that they have found a way of living free from the constraints of air breathing.
- 16012022 5y ago
  As far as I know, "industrial society" will still last for another centuries so there's no "problem to this narrative" as you say. It's like saying "the problem with life on Earth is that it depends on the sun which will explode some time in the future"
- ericmcer 5y ago
  It feels less off the grid and more like, an alternative method of being on the grid. They are still reliant on the vast majority of people being on the grid and supporting their lifestyle. That said live your life however you want. It would be dumb to live in misery trying to meet some arbitrary standard. If you can exploit the way the world is to have a nice life and you aren't hurting anybody who cares. It is kind of annoying when people who choose to "disconnect" thoroughly document it.
- rgrieselhuber 5y ago
  The fallacy here though seems to be that, because we have industrial society, we also have to accept centralization as part of the deal. These technologies enable fewer dependencies on centralized systems, which is the real driver behind off the grid philosophies, IMO.
- vitiral 5y ago
  I agree, there are many problems to solve. Check out civboot.org Some of the folks at 100r made uxn, which helped inspire my approach to github.com/civboot/fngi
- doctor_eval 5y ago
  I find this to be a really ungenerous take. Nobody is claiming that they live in a non-industrial society. They clearly live on a fibreglass sailing vessel and use electronic navigation aides. The "narrative", as you put it, is simply to use less, to "double your capacity by halving your consumption", to live life in a humble and sustainable way, and to do as much as you can with what you already have. I found the entire website to have a dreamy and non-judgemental approach to everything, and I envy their lifestyle. They are just doing what they do, and documenting it so that others can learn with them, and maybe to encourage us to aspire to do a little better with our lives. Maybe you could avoid judging them, in return?

by cmason 5y ago

nicbou 5y ago

It gives you a mix of fear and confidence. Your little setup is all there, unaffected by greater forces outside your front gate. The cost of energy won't change and your money isn't tied in a market or another. Like you said, it's all right there with you. On the other hand, you're the point of failure for this machine. You are responsible for it, and you have to keep it running. You can't get sick or tired because you're not part of a system large enough to cut you some slack. A common theme in stories about self sufficiency is something breaking and the hardships that ensue from not having anyone to help.

it_does_follow 5y ago

> these tanks > those solar panels > these batteries The problem with these "self-sufficient" narratives is they're always tethered to industrial society. Having the limit of your understanding be a "solar panel" is no different than it being a wall socket. The "world" itself here, the boat in this case, is manufactured in a factory. That's not to say I don't also find this stuff interesting, but don't confuse being able to hold your breath a long time for having gills. I find free diving fascinating, but there is no need in that community to claim that they have found a way of living free from the constraints of air breathing.

16012022 5y ago
As far as I know, "industrial society" will still last for another centuries so there's no "problem to this narrative" as you say. It's like saying "the problem with life on Earth is that it depends on the sun which will explode some time in the future"
ericmcer 5y ago
It feels less off the grid and more like, an alternative method of being on the grid. They are still reliant on the vast majority of people being on the grid and supporting their lifestyle. That said live your life however you want. It would be dumb to live in misery trying to meet some arbitrary standard. If you can exploit the way the world is to have a nice life and you aren't hurting anybody who cares. It is kind of annoying when people who choose to "disconnect" thoroughly document it.
rgrieselhuber 5y ago
The fallacy here though seems to be that, because we have industrial society, we also have to accept centralization as part of the deal. These technologies enable fewer dependencies on centralized systems, which is the real driver behind off the grid philosophies, IMO.
vitiral 5y ago
I agree, there are many problems to solve. Check out civboot.org Some of the folks at 100r made uxn, which helped inspire my approach to github.com/civboot/fngi
doctor_eval 5y ago
I find this to be a really ungenerous take. Nobody is claiming that they live in a non-industrial society. They clearly live on a fibreglass sailing vessel and use electronic navigation aides. The "narrative", as you put it, is simply to use less, to "double your capacity by halving your consumption", to live life in a humble and sustainable way, and to do as much as you can with what you already have. I found the entire website to have a dreamy and non-judgemental approach to everything, and I envy their lifestyle. They are just doing what they do, and documenting it so that others can learn with them, and maybe to encourage us to aspire to do a little better with our lives. Maybe you could avoid judging them, in return?