4 ms·

Consistency Sin

32 points by colinprince 5y ago

pwinnski 5y ago
This is what I think about when people lament MacOS becoming iOS: it isn't going to happen, for exactly the reasons outlined here. Even where things are similar, where the same feature exists, we use these devices in different ways. It's not just about finger vs mouse. It's about usually-locked vs usually-unlocked, about full-screen vs windows, about large screens vs small ones, about dozens of ways we use these devices differently despite superficial similarity.
- duxup 5y ago
  >we use these devices in different ways If only Microsoft had known that with Windows 10.
forgotmypw17 5y ago
I think the real underlying cause is lack of user control and non-consensual changes by the developers. This is a problem with proprietary software that will never go away, and why I switched away, first from Windows, and then from Mac. On a proprietary OS, you are never the owner, you are a tenant at best. At first, the "polish" of these platforms with millions of currency behind them had appeal, but it was soon overshadowed by changes I never asked for being forced on me. My computer is my work station. Imagine if you have a woodworking table with all your tools and materials laid out, and you go to bed, come back in the morning, and everything has been rearranged, some of your tools replaced with other tools, some taken away altogether because you "don't need them". It would be a very rude thing of someone to do, and it would be a non-starter. Yet in the computer world, I guess because it is so new, and people don't know any better, it is accepted all the time. But I don't accept it anymore. I tried Debian and Ubuntu and switched away when they did the same thing. Then I tried another distro,and another, distro after distro, until I found one which never pulled this type of crap on me, and I'm sticking with it. It's not perfect, but it stays the way I've adjusted it, and never forces any changes on me. I am finally at peace on my computer.
- pabs3 5y ago
  Which distro and tools did you end up on?
- pabs3 5y ago
  Debian is basically beholden to what upstream projects do, so almost all UI rearrangements are direct from upstream and not caused by Debian. Ubuntu do some of their own UI changes though, but a lot less than they used to.
  - forgotmypw17 5y ago
    It doesn't really matter to me who is "causing" them. If Debian is beholden to upstream, then they are not beholden to maintaining my environment, which means it is not the distro for me.
    - pabs3 5y ago
      All distros are beholden to upstreams, this is a fundamental attribute of all of them. Unless the distro develops all of their own interface components and keeps them the same, or forks an existing upstream project wholesale and prevents UI changes. Some of them are starting to do that, but usually they do that so they can change the UI more rather than keeping it the same.
      - forgotmypw17 5y ago
        It's true, but not all upstreams are doing this sort of thing, and I can avoid the ones who are. It's kind of like choosing friends and partners...
        pabs3 5y ago
        I'm sure the upstreams that aren't doing these things are also available in the distros you're avoiding, like Debian :)
tomxor 5y ago
> listened to feedback and fixed the issues before shipping. That’s an important thing for a product that every Apple customer uses every day on every device. It’s one thing to make a mistake, it’s a wholly different thing to deny that anything’s wrong. I can't tell whether this is sarcastic or not. If not, I guess they haven't had the pleasure of the full Apple experience yet.

32 points by colinprince 5y ago

This is what I think about when people lament MacOS becoming iOS: it isn't going to happen, for exactly the reasons outlined here. Even where things are similar, where the same feature exists, we use these devices in different ways. It's not just about finger vs mouse. It's about usually-locked vs usually-unlocked, about full-screen vs windows, about large screens vs small ones, about dozens of ways we use these devices differently despite superficial similarity.

duxup 5y ago
>we use these devices in different ways If only Microsoft had known that with Windows 10.

forgotmypw17 5y ago

I think the real underlying cause is lack of user control and non-consensual changes by the developers. This is a problem with proprietary software that will never go away, and why I switched away, first from Windows, and then from Mac. On a proprietary OS, you are never the owner, you are a tenant at best. At first, the "polish" of these platforms with millions of currency behind them had appeal, but it was soon overshadowed by changes I never asked for being forced on me. My computer is my work station. Imagine if you have a woodworking table with all your tools and materials laid out, and you go to bed, come back in the morning, and everything has been rearranged, some of your tools replaced with other tools, some taken away altogether because you "don't need them". It would be a very rude thing of someone to do, and it would be a non-starter. Yet in the computer world, I guess because it is so new, and people don't know any better, it is accepted all the time. But I don't accept it anymore. I tried Debian and Ubuntu and switched away when they did the same thing. Then I tried another distro,and another, distro after distro, until I found one which never pulled this type of crap on me, and I'm sticking with it. It's not perfect, but it stays the way I've adjusted it, and never forces any changes on me. I am finally at peace on my computer.

pabs3 5y ago
Which distro and tools did you end up on?
pabs3 5y ago
Debian is basically beholden to what upstream projects do, so almost all UI rearrangements are direct from upstream and not caused by Debian. Ubuntu do some of their own UI changes though, but a lot less than they used to.
- forgotmypw17 5y ago
  It doesn't really matter to me who is "causing" them. If Debian is beholden to upstream, then they are not beholden to maintaining my environment, which means it is not the distro for me.
  - pabs3 5y ago
    All distros are beholden to upstreams, this is a fundamental attribute of all of them. Unless the distro develops all of their own interface components and keeps them the same, or forks an existing upstream project wholesale and prevents UI changes. Some of them are starting to do that, but usually they do that so they can change the UI more rather than keeping it the same.
    - forgotmypw17 5y ago
      It's true, but not all upstreams are doing this sort of thing, and I can avoid the ones who are. It's kind of like choosing friends and partners...
      - pabs3 5y ago
        I'm sure the upstreams that aren't doing these things are also available in the distros you're avoiding, like Debian :)

tomxor 5y ago

> listened to feedback and fixed the issues before shipping. That’s an important thing for a product that every Apple customer uses every day on every device. It’s one thing to make a mistake, it’s a wholly different thing to deny that anything’s wrong. I can't tell whether this is sarcastic or not. If not, I guess they haven't had the pleasure of the full Apple experience yet.