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Our company sells HW and SW for the dental sector. We have a desktop app that processes DICOM data to do implant treatment planning (where to place an implant

Our company sells HW and SW for the dental sector. We have a desktop app that processes DICOM data to do implant treatment planning (where to place an implant in the patient jaw). Output is a STL file to print a drill guide for the oral surgeon to perform a guided surgery. Our desktop scanners for dental labs and our intra-oral scanners for dentists generate 3D meshes of the patients oral situation. Those meshes are the input data for the CAD/CAM Software my team builds. It is a desktop app for the digital design of dental restorations. The GUI is in javaFX and 3D visualization is done with OpenGL 4.5. Once the restorative Design is done, that app can generate many different output formats. Labs will feed the design files their local milling machine or 3D printer. Dentists can send it to centralized milling facilities of their choice to produce the crown or bridge or what have you. Some impressions can be seen here: https://youtu.be/5THQMr5SAH0 https://youtu.be/5THQMr5SAH0

franga2000 5y ago
Not sure if it was your specific software, but I recently filmed a promo for a local dentist who was demonstrating this exact tech and I was blown away by how quick and accurate those scanner sticks are and how well the software stitched it in real time. How the hell can you scan something as small, wet and soft as the inside of a person's mouth and stitch it all perfectly? Seems like the absolute worst environment for scanning
- splittingTimes 5y ago
  It's great to hear that this little piece of technology inspired amazement. It is quite something. Your observations is spot on: Indeed, the environment is far from ideal. 2-3 years ago dentists had to apply a powder onto the patients teeth to make just the scan of the teeth work. Now the software has matured to work powderless. The scan has to work for a wide variety of surfaces and vis-a-vis refractive indices like teeth, metal implants, ceramic or gold inlays, gingiva, orthodontic engagers. The very high end models even detect tooth decay / caries. The stitching is another challenge. Again, in the past the scanner would loose his reference on the mouth and it was fiddly to get it back to continue from the last scanned part. The team working on this was brilliant to overcome this problem and now it is a smooth experience Finally, accuracy is something all devices on the market having a hard time with. They are operating on the limit of what is possible. Small partial scans are no problem. But when you scan a full arch, you must ensure the deviation does not exceed 30-50 microns over that full arch. Otherwise, if the dentist plans to do a big bridge that spans several teeth a lower accuracy will lead to miniscule deviations and twists in the designed and later produced bridge, that the patient will recognize it and feels that it "just does not fit right". Our mouth is super sensitive in this regard because of the high number of nerves/sensors. Our tongue operates like a magnifying glass. When you have a small hair in your mouth or between your teeth you will feel that right away.
- huhtenberg 5y ago
  > I was blown away by how quick and accurate those scanner sticks are Damn, you weren't kidding - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA4IWd3Svm0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA4IWd3Svm0 Very impressive indeed. Looks effortless and natural, but I'm sure that the processing engine is not exactly trivial.
  - ddingus 5y ago
    WOW! Was just reading along, idle on a slow day and hit this. The processing on that to achieve such a low latency is amazing, flat out. Fun watch.
derekja 5y ago
neat! I recently had my teeth scanned for a night orthotic and decided that I needed a 3D print of my teeth. It was challenging walking the office staff how to get me the STL but once I did they were amazed when I walked in with a print of my teeth! (I don't really know why they were amazed, I mean, that's what the equipment was purchased to do was make scans of teeth. But their reaction was noteworthy!)
- splittingTimes 5y ago
  Yeah. 3D printers still have not entered the industry to their full extend. It's mostly dental labs that use them. Here again you need the right materials and precision to use them as physical control models when doing the aesthetic restoration and planning. It is still very common that dentists take an impression (very you bite that gummy mass). It gets sent to the labs. The labs then create a plaster model from that to have a physical control model. They also use one of the above mentioned desktop 3D scanners to create the digital model used in the CAD application.
PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
wow. I just had a scan done a few weeks for precisely this sort of thing (drill guide), and I was really impressed by the software. But I was also completely puzzled by what the actual data input (from the wand-like thing) consists of? Any chance you could enlighten me? p.s. the drill guide arrived, the implants go in next week!
- splittingTimes 5y ago
  So our implant planning software coDiagnostiX actually used DICOM data coming from a CT-scan. You need the full bone/jaw information to make sure that the implant goes into a place where the bone is wide enough, had the right density and that you do not hit a nerve. Those are the clinical requirements. On top of that, the placement must allow for a proper aesthetic restoration design by the lab technician, too. For the latter you then also need the intra-oral scan. The output of the IO scanner is a simple (but massive) 3D point cloud. The software then is meshing those points on the fly. Using the color information from the IO scanners camera, shaders are added to generate the right texture for teeth, gingiva, etc. We have a module in the CAD Software that allows to Integrate the surgical and prosthetic workflows through real-time case data sharing between coDiagnostiX and DWOS CAD. The Real-time (or asynchronous) connectivity between lab technicians and implant-placing dentists enables better prosthetically-driven implant planning and immediate provisional design. On a personal note, don't be afraid of the procedure. With those drill guides and today's planning solutions we made leaps in implantology. In the beginning the surgeons did it by hand and feeling. I shudder at the thought.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    Thanks for the explanation. IIUC, the "wand" object that was used to generate data inside my mouth is not using any absolute location data, it's just scanning whatever it can and then the point meshing Just Works (TM) ? It seems quite remarkable - the wand is essentially being waved around completely freely, and I was amazed that you could build a model from the data generated in that way.
indigodaddy 5y ago
My uncle founded Jenmar, heard of the company and software?
- splittingTimes 5y ago
  Sorry, no I did not, had to look it up. 30 years in the business is mighty impressive. The competition in the dental market is extrem, so that's a huge success your father build!! We had a team that also build Lab management software but overtime we painfully became aware that an integrated billing service is a maintenance nightmare with yearly changes to tax laws, the myriad of different health care providers/insurance companies ever changing what treatments they subsidize to which extend on an monthly or even weekly basis. Multiply that with all the different countries we operate in, it became unsustainable. So again, kudos to your father to prevail in this space.
  - indigodaddy 5y ago
    Thanks, yeah I think it’s quite a niche business. I don’t think he was the biggest player, but top 3 perhaps. But yeah not a lot of players in that exact category.
COGlory 5y ago
My father is a dental technician and has a Dental Wings scanner. What a small world.
- splittingTimes 5y ago
  How cool. He should try the new "Easy" CAD software we shipped with our latest major release in December. It is a breath of fresh air and much more streamlined & intuitive workflows compared to our classic CAD Software he is used to. Reading your comment made me really happy. As a dev I am always excited to have contact with our customers. Other hate it, but I love giving 3rd level support.
  - charlesg63 5y ago
    Hello. So I'm the dad with the Dental Wings scanner, which I purchased from Straumann about 7 years ago. I'm using their version of the Dental Wings software. Would this be the same as the software that you're referring to, or is the Straumann version different? I am a dental technician, and I work with general dentists, so I don't take advantage of a lot of the software that's available to me. I do crowns, bridges, and implants mainly. Most of the general dentists do take impressions, and send those along, which I pour in gypsum, and scan in the scanner. I do have one dentist that I do work for that uses an intraoral scanner. For those cases I import the STL's from the Trios portal. This is cool to be chatting with a dev. What else can you tell me about it?
    - splittingTimes 5y ago
      Hi there. Thanks for being a loyal customer. Yes, your "Cares Visual" Straumann software is just a branded version of our Dental Wings one. In terms of functionality there is no difference, but I think with your version you got by default access to the vast Straumann product portfolio (hundred of implant kits and materials), plus their validated (FDA approved) workflow and access to their centralized milling facilities. > dont take advantage of a lot of the software that's available to me. I do crowns, bridges, and implants mainly. Yes Cares Visual is very flexible and offers many different ways to do restorations. It can be daunting at times :). > Most of the general dentists do take impressions, and send those along, which I pour in gypsum, and scan in the scanner. I do have one dentist that I do work for that uses an intraoral scanner. That is what we see in Europe as well (I assume you are US based). Dentists are more conservative when it comes to switching to digital dentistry. But I think it is understandable. Having their patients safety in mind, they want to be sure before applying completely new technology. Your dentists uses a Trios IO scanner. Since Care Visual is an open system we can deal with input from many 3rd party devices (i.e. non Straumann). What topics would interest you? Or do you have any feedback in particular? I am happy to take this conversation elsewhere. See my email in my profile.

franga2000 5y ago

Not sure if it was your specific software, but I recently filmed a promo for a local dentist who was demonstrating this exact tech and I was blown away by how quick and accurate those scanner sticks are and how well the software stitched it in real time. How the hell can you scan something as small, wet and soft as the inside of a person's mouth and stitch it all perfectly? Seems like the absolute worst environment for scanning

splittingTimes 5y ago
It's great to hear that this little piece of technology inspired amazement. It is quite something. Your observations is spot on: Indeed, the environment is far from ideal. 2-3 years ago dentists had to apply a powder onto the patients teeth to make just the scan of the teeth work. Now the software has matured to work powderless. The scan has to work for a wide variety of surfaces and vis-a-vis refractive indices like teeth, metal implants, ceramic or gold inlays, gingiva, orthodontic engagers. The very high end models even detect tooth decay / caries. The stitching is another challenge. Again, in the past the scanner would loose his reference on the mouth and it was fiddly to get it back to continue from the last scanned part. The team working on this was brilliant to overcome this problem and now it is a smooth experience Finally, accuracy is something all devices on the market having a hard time with. They are operating on the limit of what is possible. Small partial scans are no problem. But when you scan a full arch, you must ensure the deviation does not exceed 30-50 microns over that full arch. Otherwise, if the dentist plans to do a big bridge that spans several teeth a lower accuracy will lead to miniscule deviations and twists in the designed and later produced bridge, that the patient will recognize it and feels that it "just does not fit right". Our mouth is super sensitive in this regard because of the high number of nerves/sensors. Our tongue operates like a magnifying glass. When you have a small hair in your mouth or between your teeth you will feel that right away.
huhtenberg 5y ago
> I was blown away by how quick and accurate those scanner sticks are Damn, you weren't kidding - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA4IWd3Svm0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA4IWd3Svm0 Very impressive indeed. Looks effortless and natural, but I'm sure that the processing engine is not exactly trivial.
- ddingus 5y ago
  WOW! Was just reading along, idle on a slow day and hit this. The processing on that to achieve such a low latency is amazing, flat out. Fun watch.

derekja 5y ago

neat! I recently had my teeth scanned for a night orthotic and decided that I needed a 3D print of my teeth. It was challenging walking the office staff how to get me the STL but once I did they were amazed when I walked in with a print of my teeth! (I don't really know why they were amazed, I mean, that's what the equipment was purchased to do was make scans of teeth. But their reaction was noteworthy!)

splittingTimes 5y ago
Yeah. 3D printers still have not entered the industry to their full extend. It's mostly dental labs that use them. Here again you need the right materials and precision to use them as physical control models when doing the aesthetic restoration and planning. It is still very common that dentists take an impression (very you bite that gummy mass). It gets sent to the labs. The labs then create a plaster model from that to have a physical control model. They also use one of the above mentioned desktop 3D scanners to create the digital model used in the CAD application.

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago

wow. I just had a scan done a few weeks for precisely this sort of thing (drill guide), and I was really impressed by the software. But I was also completely puzzled by what the actual data input (from the wand-like thing) consists of? Any chance you could enlighten me? p.s. the drill guide arrived, the implants go in next week!

splittingTimes 5y ago
So our implant planning software coDiagnostiX actually used DICOM data coming from a CT-scan. You need the full bone/jaw information to make sure that the implant goes into a place where the bone is wide enough, had the right density and that you do not hit a nerve. Those are the clinical requirements. On top of that, the placement must allow for a proper aesthetic restoration design by the lab technician, too. For the latter you then also need the intra-oral scan. The output of the IO scanner is a simple (but massive) 3D point cloud. The software then is meshing those points on the fly. Using the color information from the IO scanners camera, shaders are added to generate the right texture for teeth, gingiva, etc. We have a module in the CAD Software that allows to Integrate the surgical and prosthetic workflows through real-time case data sharing between coDiagnostiX and DWOS CAD. The Real-time (or asynchronous) connectivity between lab technicians and implant-placing dentists enables better prosthetically-driven implant planning and immediate provisional design. On a personal note, don't be afraid of the procedure. With those drill guides and today's planning solutions we made leaps in implantology. In the beginning the surgeons did it by hand and feeling. I shudder at the thought.
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  Thanks for the explanation. IIUC, the "wand" object that was used to generate data inside my mouth is not using any absolute location data, it's just scanning whatever it can and then the point meshing Just Works (TM) ? It seems quite remarkable - the wand is essentially being waved around completely freely, and I was amazed that you could build a model from the data generated in that way.

indigodaddy 5y ago

My uncle founded Jenmar, heard of the company and software?

splittingTimes 5y ago
Sorry, no I did not, had to look it up. 30 years in the business is mighty impressive. The competition in the dental market is extrem, so that's a huge success your father build!! We had a team that also build Lab management software but overtime we painfully became aware that an integrated billing service is a maintenance nightmare with yearly changes to tax laws, the myriad of different health care providers/insurance companies ever changing what treatments they subsidize to which extend on an monthly or even weekly basis. Multiply that with all the different countries we operate in, it became unsustainable. So again, kudos to your father to prevail in this space.
- indigodaddy 5y ago
  Thanks, yeah I think it’s quite a niche business. I don’t think he was the biggest player, but top 3 perhaps. But yeah not a lot of players in that exact category.

COGlory 5y ago

My father is a dental technician and has a Dental Wings scanner. What a small world.

splittingTimes 5y ago
How cool. He should try the new "Easy" CAD software we shipped with our latest major release in December. It is a breath of fresh air and much more streamlined & intuitive workflows compared to our classic CAD Software he is used to. Reading your comment made me really happy. As a dev I am always excited to have contact with our customers. Other hate it, but I love giving 3rd level support.
- charlesg63 5y ago
  Hello. So I'm the dad with the Dental Wings scanner, which I purchased from Straumann about 7 years ago. I'm using their version of the Dental Wings software. Would this be the same as the software that you're referring to, or is the Straumann version different? I am a dental technician, and I work with general dentists, so I don't take advantage of a lot of the software that's available to me. I do crowns, bridges, and implants mainly. Most of the general dentists do take impressions, and send those along, which I pour in gypsum, and scan in the scanner. I do have one dentist that I do work for that uses an intraoral scanner. For those cases I import the STL's from the Trios portal. This is cool to be chatting with a dev. What else can you tell me about it?
  - splittingTimes 5y ago
    Hi there. Thanks for being a loyal customer. Yes, your "Cares Visual" Straumann software is just a branded version of our Dental Wings one. In terms of functionality there is no difference, but I think with your version you got by default access to the vast Straumann product portfolio (hundred of implant kits and materials), plus their validated (FDA approved) workflow and access to their centralized milling facilities. > dont take advantage of a lot of the software that's available to me. I do crowns, bridges, and implants mainly. Yes Cares Visual is very flexible and offers many different ways to do restorations. It can be daunting at times :). > Most of the general dentists do take impressions, and send those along, which I pour in gypsum, and scan in the scanner. I do have one dentist that I do work for that uses an intraoral scanner. That is what we see in Europe as well (I assume you are US based). Dentists are more conservative when it comes to switching to digital dentistry. But I think it is understandable. Having their patients safety in mind, they want to be sure before applying completely new technology. Your dentists uses a Trios IO scanner. Since Care Visual is an open system we can deal with input from many 3rd party devices (i.e. non Straumann). What topics would interest you? Or do you have any feedback in particular? I am happy to take this conversation elsewhere. See my email in my profile.