3 ms·

For whatever reason, it's become acceptable on the left to be anti-Semitic so long as you sanitize it by wrapping it in anti-Israel sentiment. It reminds of how

by tharne 5y ago

For whatever reason, it's become acceptable on the left to be anti-Semitic so long as you sanitize it by wrapping it in anti-Israel sentiment. It reminds of how the right used rationalize anti-gay sentiment by saying "Oh, we don't hate the sinner, we just hate the sin".

coolgeek 5y ago
By this logic, one can't be anti-CCP without being anti-chinese.
- ars 5y ago
  It's not about what can be, it's about what actually is. People who are not antisemitic typically say "but you can criticize Israel", and they are right, and they don't understand. The trouble is that in the real world people who criticize Israel and not antisemitic are vanishingly rare. It's like "black lives matter", people are not not racist find it very racist and respond "all lives matter", and they don't get it. People who experience racism, explain "black lives matter" doesn't imply anything about other people. In the real world you almost never find people who criticize Israel who are not also antisemitic. For example, in this very thread "level1" tries to criticize Israel with a factually false accusation, checking his post history finds him singling out Jews. This is pretty typical.
  - coolgeek 5y ago
    > The trouble is that in the real world people who criticize Israel and not antisemitic are vanishingly rare. Where is your evidence for this? By evidence, I mean 1) empirical, not anecdotal 2) from a non-partisan source
  - level1 5y ago
    > For example, in this very thread "level1" tries to criticize Israel with a factually false accusation, checking his post history finds him singling out Jews. This is pretty typical. To be clear I am referring to this - but then I think you'll criticize all of HRW as anti-semitic as well right? Come one and deal with reality. https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/isra... Most people are past the point of debating whether it is apartheid or not. Most Israelis believe that Israel should give preferential rights to Jews: "Most Israeli Jews (79%) say Jews deserve preferential treatment in Israel." Also 50% support transfer of Arabs out of the state: "The survey asked Jews whether they strongly agree, agree, disagree or strongly disagree with the statement that “Arabs should be expelled or transferred from Israel.” Roughly half of Israeli Jews strongly agree (21%) or agree (27%), while a similar share disagree (29%) or strongly disagree (17%).3" Both are from: https://www.pewforum.org/2016/03/08/israels-religiously-divided-society/ https://www.pewforum.org/2016/03/08/israels-religiously-divi...
Miner49er 5y ago
No, this is just Israel finding a way to avoid criticism. Any time someone tries to criticize Israel, they just get labelled an anti-Semite by Israel supporters. It's a way to shutdown any criticism of Israel. It's extremely disingenuous. There's other part of this article that are also disingenuous - "It equated the policies of Israel, of which I am a citizen and where I still have family, with apartheid." It's disingenuous to claim Israel's policies aren't apartheid when they literally say things like, "The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people". [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Law:_Israel_as_the_Nation-State_of_the_Jewish_People https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Law:_Israel_as_the_Natio...
- hw-guy 5y ago
  Many nations have an official religion, often enshrined in their constitutions or even their names; for example, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and several others are officially defined by adherence to Islam. Many of these nations have terrible human rights records with respect to women, gays, and members of other religions. Many make the practice of other religions illegal. Yet only Israel,the world's only Jewish state, is singled out for boycotts and called an "apartheid state" by academics. Why? That is what is so clearly anti-Semitic about these boycotts.
  - pthread_t 5y ago
    25% of American Jews call Israel an apartheid state [0]. Are those Jews anti-semitic as well? Israel also doesn't like it when the U.S. criticizes other human rights abusers, such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt [1]. [0] https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-finds-a-quarter-of-us-jews-think-israel-is-apartheid-state/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-finds-a-quarter-of-us-jew... [1] https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-officials-cautioned-biden-against-heavy-criticism-of-egypt-saudi-arabia/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-officials-cautioned-bi...
lalaland1125 5y ago
Or maybe some people simply disagree with Israel's settlement policies. Automatically assuming that criticism of Israel is antisemitic seems just as productive as assuming that criticism of China is sinophobic.
epsteindidntk 5y ago

by tharne 5y ago

coolgeek 5y ago

By this logic, one can't be anti-CCP without being anti-chinese.

ars 5y ago
It's not about what can be, it's about what actually is. People who are not antisemitic typically say "but you can criticize Israel", and they are right, and they don't understand. The trouble is that in the real world people who criticize Israel and not antisemitic are vanishingly rare. It's like "black lives matter", people are not not racist find it very racist and respond "all lives matter", and they don't get it. People who experience racism, explain "black lives matter" doesn't imply anything about other people. In the real world you almost never find people who criticize Israel who are not also antisemitic. For example, in this very thread "level1" tries to criticize Israel with a factually false accusation, checking his post history finds him singling out Jews. This is pretty typical.
- coolgeek 5y ago
  > The trouble is that in the real world people who criticize Israel and not antisemitic are vanishingly rare. Where is your evidence for this? By evidence, I mean 1) empirical, not anecdotal 2) from a non-partisan source
- level1 5y ago
  > For example, in this very thread "level1" tries to criticize Israel with a factually false accusation, checking his post history finds him singling out Jews. This is pretty typical. To be clear I am referring to this - but then I think you'll criticize all of HRW as anti-semitic as well right? Come one and deal with reality. https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/isra... Most people are past the point of debating whether it is apartheid or not. Most Israelis believe that Israel should give preferential rights to Jews: "Most Israeli Jews (79%) say Jews deserve preferential treatment in Israel." Also 50% support transfer of Arabs out of the state: "The survey asked Jews whether they strongly agree, agree, disagree or strongly disagree with the statement that “Arabs should be expelled or transferred from Israel.” Roughly half of Israeli Jews strongly agree (21%) or agree (27%), while a similar share disagree (29%) or strongly disagree (17%).3" Both are from: https://www.pewforum.org/2016/03/08/israels-religiously-divided-society/ https://www.pewforum.org/2016/03/08/israels-religiously-divi...

Miner49er 5y ago

No, this is just Israel finding a way to avoid criticism. Any time someone tries to criticize Israel, they just get labelled an anti-Semite by Israel supporters. It's a way to shutdown any criticism of Israel. It's extremely disingenuous. There's other part of this article that are also disingenuous - "It equated the policies of Israel, of which I am a citizen and where I still have family, with apartheid." It's disingenuous to claim Israel's policies aren't apartheid when they literally say things like, "The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people". [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Law:_Israel_as_the_Nation-State_of_the_Jewish_People https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Law:_Israel_as_the_Natio...

hw-guy 5y ago
Many nations have an official religion, often enshrined in their constitutions or even their names; for example, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and several others are officially defined by adherence to Islam. Many of these nations have terrible human rights records with respect to women, gays, and members of other religions. Many make the practice of other religions illegal. Yet only Israel,the world's only Jewish state, is singled out for boycotts and called an "apartheid state" by academics. Why? That is what is so clearly anti-Semitic about these boycotts.
- pthread_t 5y ago
  25% of American Jews call Israel an apartheid state [0]. Are those Jews anti-semitic as well? Israel also doesn't like it when the U.S. criticizes other human rights abusers, such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt [1]. [0] https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-finds-a-quarter-of-us-jews-think-israel-is-apartheid-state/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-finds-a-quarter-of-us-jew... [1] https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-officials-cautioned-biden-against-heavy-criticism-of-egypt-saudi-arabia/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-officials-cautioned-bi...

lalaland1125 5y ago

Or maybe some people simply disagree with Israel's settlement policies. Automatically assuming that criticism of Israel is antisemitic seems just as productive as assuming that criticism of China is sinophobic.

epsteindidntk 5y ago