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Don’t focus on society-wide changes or what options you think should exist. Instead find a path that works for you. You can learn on your own from books and on

Don’t focus on society-wide changes or what options you think should exist. Instead find a path that works for you. You can learn on your own from books and online resources, find a mentor if you’re lucky. You can simply stop attending school and homeschool if your parents will cooperate. High school students generally can take classes at universities and community colleges. You can find all kinds of resources once you manage to free yourself from compulsory school attendance. A high school diploma has some value in the job market, but you can get a diploma from community college or by examination in some states, you can look into that.

jimmyvalmer 5y ago
High school students generally can take classes at universities Guy fails high school math, but yes, have him ditch school, drive his mom's car to a university and audit college calculus.
- gregjor 5y ago
  Consider the possibility that students can fail a class in school for reasons other than not understanding the subject. I failed (got an F grade) in high school math for two years, because of bad teachers and chaotic classrooms. Eventually I just stopped going to class, guaranteeing a failing grade regardless of whether I understood math. At the same time I got through two years of math classes (trig and calculus) at a nearby university. I did that on advice from my high school counselor, who then gave me math credit because she understood the difference between high school grades and learning.
  - jimmyvalmer 5y ago
    I guess your university math class didn't cover Bayesian likelihood.
    - gregjor 5y ago
      Nice way to announce rationalist in the house. Statistics and probability came later, you're right. Basic understanding of statistics informs us that aggregate results do not predict individual outcomes. The aggregate poor math performance of American high school students does not predict what any individual may achieve (or fail to achieve). The overall poor math grades and test scores among American high school students could have any number of causes. Overwhelmed or disengaged teachers and a one size fits all curriculum probably have something to do with it. My comment was intended to get the original poster to think about taking control over their education rather than expecting school to do that for them. If high school math classes aren't working then look into alternatives. The OP already indicated they care about learning math, but aren't necessarily motivated to achieve good grades to get into one of the "best universities."
      - jimmyvalmer 5y ago
        Basic understanding of statistics informs us that aggregate results do not predict individual outcomes. Actually, that's precisely what it does.
        gregjor 5y ago
        I'm not sure what you're arguing but it seems like some form of ecological fallacy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_fallacy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_fallacy I'm not even sure what statistics has to do with the OP's question or my responses. It only came up because you implied I don't understand "Bayesian likelihood" in your ad hominem. My point is that a student can get a poor math grade or struggle in high school for reasons other than lack of ability or interest in math. One way to test that is to try learning math in a different environment (the personal example I gave). If a student is failing math one hypothesis is they are not able to understand math, or aren't applying themselves. Another hypothesis is that the teaching environment is less than ideal -- something Bayesian likelihood might support.
        jimmyvalmer 5y ago
        I'm not even sure what statistics has to do with the OP's question Well, that was obvious. What's more likely? That OP is failing math because it's beneath him, or because he's got more in common with the *prior* million disaffected dropouts?

jimmyvalmer 5y ago

High school students generally can take classes at universities Guy fails high school math, but yes, have him ditch school, drive his mom's car to a university and audit college calculus.

gregjor 5y ago
Consider the possibility that students can fail a class in school for reasons other than not understanding the subject. I failed (got an F grade) in high school math for two years, because of bad teachers and chaotic classrooms. Eventually I just stopped going to class, guaranteeing a failing grade regardless of whether I understood math. At the same time I got through two years of math classes (trig and calculus) at a nearby university. I did that on advice from my high school counselor, who then gave me math credit because she understood the difference between high school grades and learning.
- jimmyvalmer 5y ago
  I guess your university math class didn't cover Bayesian likelihood.
  - gregjor 5y ago
    Nice way to announce rationalist in the house. Statistics and probability came later, you're right. Basic understanding of statistics informs us that aggregate results do not predict individual outcomes. The aggregate poor math performance of American high school students does not predict what any individual may achieve (or fail to achieve). The overall poor math grades and test scores among American high school students could have any number of causes. Overwhelmed or disengaged teachers and a one size fits all curriculum probably have something to do with it. My comment was intended to get the original poster to think about taking control over their education rather than expecting school to do that for them. If high school math classes aren't working then look into alternatives. The OP already indicated they care about learning math, but aren't necessarily motivated to achieve good grades to get into one of the "best universities."
    - jimmyvalmer 5y ago
      Basic understanding of statistics informs us that aggregate results do not predict individual outcomes. Actually, that's precisely what it does.
      - gregjor 5y ago
        I'm not sure what you're arguing but it seems like some form of ecological fallacy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_fallacy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_fallacy I'm not even sure what statistics has to do with the OP's question or my responses. It only came up because you implied I don't understand "Bayesian likelihood" in your ad hominem. My point is that a student can get a poor math grade or struggle in high school for reasons other than lack of ability or interest in math. One way to test that is to try learning math in a different environment (the personal example I gave). If a student is failing math one hypothesis is they are not able to understand math, or aren't applying themselves. Another hypothesis is that the teaching environment is less than ideal -- something Bayesian likelihood might support.
        jimmyvalmer 5y ago
        I'm not even sure what statistics has to do with the OP's question Well, that was obvious. What's more likely? That OP is failing math because it's beneath him, or because he's got more in common with the *prior* million disaffected dropouts?