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I suspect majority of users never touch Pg Up/Pg Dn/Home/End and all those other keys over there. For arrow keys, the compacted layout is helpful when designing

I suspect majority of users never touch Pg Up/Pg Dn/Home/End and all those other keys over there. For arrow keys, the compacted layout is helpful when designing a space constrained keyboard, and it's totally usable.

varispeed 5y ago
Wouldn't that be because these keys are difficult to use in typical laptop keyboard, as in self fulfilling prophecy?
- franga2000 5y ago
  It probably doesn't help, but it definitely isn't the reason. Most people still do their work on desktops with full-sized keyboards and they already don't use those keys there.
  - varispeed 5y ago
    So how they e.g. move around cells in the spreadsheet or documents?
    - franga2000 5y ago
      Mouse. If you're correcting data in a spreadsheet you're probably jumping around a lot and a mouse makes more sense and if you're entering new data most people I've worked with use tab and enter.
dsego 5y ago
fn+arrow combo is imho equally as usable
- orthecreedence 5y ago
  I hate fn+arrow as an alternative to having real home/end/pgup/pgdown keys. It's probably the thing I hate most about my blade laptop.
  - dsego 5y ago
    Why? Do you feel similar about not having a "real" dedicated key to ctrl+c / ctrl+v ?
    - jlokier 5y ago
      It takes two hands to use Fn+Up/Down instead of PageUp/PageDown keys to scroll around. These keys are for some people the most common keys used for fast nevigation in code and documents. Ctrl+C / Ctrl+V are used far less often, and you can type them with one hand.
      - dsego 5y ago
        > It takes two hands to use Fn+Up/Down instead of PageUp/PageDown keys to scroll around Doesn't seem like a big deal, I'm trying to think of a situation where I need the other hand to be free while paging or moving to end of the line. > These keys are for some people the most common keys used for fast nevigation in code and documents. Seems like a personal preference. I have a working trackpad so I almost never use them. Also, home/end on a thinkpad are out of reach anyway. And what's the point of 'insert' ? > Ctrl+C / Ctrl+V are used far less often, I use these constantly, I don't remember touching home/end ever, pg up/dwn maybe by accident.
    - orthecreedence 5y ago
      Because I came from a laptop that had home/end/pgup/pgdn and grew fully accustomed to those keys for keyboard navigation (which is my bread and butter these days). The alternative was to get a 15" laptop, which is slightly too big for me, so I suffer in silence and occasionally bitch about it on forums.

varispeed 5y ago

Wouldn't that be because these keys are difficult to use in typical laptop keyboard, as in self fulfilling prophecy?

franga2000 5y ago
It probably doesn't help, but it definitely isn't the reason. Most people still do their work on desktops with full-sized keyboards and they already don't use those keys there.
- varispeed 5y ago
  So how they e.g. move around cells in the spreadsheet or documents?
  - franga2000 5y ago
    Mouse. If you're correcting data in a spreadsheet you're probably jumping around a lot and a mouse makes more sense and if you're entering new data most people I've worked with use tab and enter.

dsego 5y ago

fn+arrow combo is imho equally as usable

orthecreedence 5y ago
I hate fn+arrow as an alternative to having real home/end/pgup/pgdown keys. It's probably the thing I hate most about my blade laptop.
- dsego 5y ago
  Why? Do you feel similar about not having a "real" dedicated key to ctrl+c / ctrl+v ?
  - jlokier 5y ago
    It takes two hands to use Fn+Up/Down instead of PageUp/PageDown keys to scroll around. These keys are for some people the most common keys used for fast nevigation in code and documents. Ctrl+C / Ctrl+V are used far less often, and you can type them with one hand.
    - dsego 5y ago
      > It takes two hands to use Fn+Up/Down instead of PageUp/PageDown keys to scroll around Doesn't seem like a big deal, I'm trying to think of a situation where I need the other hand to be free while paging or moving to end of the line. > These keys are for some people the most common keys used for fast nevigation in code and documents. Seems like a personal preference. I have a working trackpad so I almost never use them. Also, home/end on a thinkpad are out of reach anyway. And what's the point of 'insert' ? > Ctrl+C / Ctrl+V are used far less often, I use these constantly, I don't remember touching home/end ever, pg up/dwn maybe by accident.
  - orthecreedence 5y ago
    Because I came from a laptop that had home/end/pgup/pgdn and grew fully accustomed to those keys for keyboard navigation (which is my bread and butter these days). The alternative was to get a 15" laptop, which is slightly too big for me, so I suffer in silence and occasionally bitch about it on forums.