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>which does not in fact depict Roosevelt's Amazon expedition Prove it

tptacek 5y ago
For starters, the Native American and African men are metaphors, representing the continents of North America and Africa. You could have gotten this far just by going to the museum's web page.
- PebblesRox 5y ago
  Agreed, according to the sculptor himself, they are symbolic figures: “The two figures at [Roosevelt’s] side are guides symbolizing the continents of Africa and America, and if you choose may stand for Roosevelt’s friendliness to all races.” —Sculptor James Earle Fraser, 1940 The online exhibit is an interesting deeper look at the statue and controversy. https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/addressing-the-theodore-roosevelt-statue/making-the-statue https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/addressing-the-theodore-roo...
  - tptacek 5y ago
    Further, in the context that statement was made, Roosevelt's "friendliness to all races" was freighted with some icky stuff --- that, for instance, leading them out of the darkness of their indigenous culture was a great favor done for them by western civilization.
    - defaultprimate 5y ago
      Yeah man, all cultures are valid and deserve to exist, even if they sacrifice thousands of children annually, regularly participate in cannibalism, etc. Westerners should have just ignored this stuff when they encountered it. The world would definitely be a better, more equitable place.
      - tptacek 5y ago
        You're making my argument for me.
        defaultprimate 5y ago
        I'm sure I am, with your unrealistic perspective of human progress and development and the uncomfortable truths of history you refuse to acknowledge. I, for one, am glad we decided cultures like Nazism are not valid or worth preserving. It's unfortunate that only Western cultures are allowed to be viewed with a critical eye.
        ashwagary 5y ago
        >regularly participate in cannibalism >Westerners should have just ignored this stuff when they encountered it. That's odd because most of the cannabalism on the planet took place in Europe. The euro-anti-cannabalism stance is barely a century old. Remember, food scarcity wasn't an issue in much of the rest of the world and unlike Europe, the non-European world had enough medical/scientific knowledge to understand human meat cured no illnesses. So why dont we have many more Egyptain mummies? Because Europeans literally ate tens of thousands of them. The savages aren't who you think they are.
        defaultprimate 5y ago
        Weird how the West progressed but many cultures hadn't even invented the wheel by the time of colonialism. Nice try with the pre-enlightenment & pre-colonialism whataboutism though. Instances of cannibalism for reasons other than desperation or individual criminality are basically non existent in western culture after the 15th century, and were certainly not a staple of culture. This is even more true for things like human sacrifice. It's also completely false that cannibalism was more rampant in Europe than anywhere else. That's laughable. It was prolific in Africa, the Americas, Australia & New Zealand pre-colonialism, some parts of East Asia. Meanwhile hundreds of thousands of human sacrifice annually were taking place among native Americans. Cannibalism was and is a regular part of many African cultures, and also was widespread among native Americans. Some cultures are better than others. That's just a fact. And it's not just Nazis that are bad.
- defaultprimate 5y ago
  >represent guides According to the sculptor. What may they represent guides for? Perhaps some prominent expeditions Roosevelt was famous for that were critical in establishing the museum?

For starters, the Native American and African men are metaphors, representing the continents of North America and Africa. You could have gotten this far just by going to the museum's web page.

PebblesRox 5y ago
Agreed, according to the sculptor himself, they are symbolic figures: “The two figures at [Roosevelt’s] side are guides symbolizing the continents of Africa and America, and if you choose may stand for Roosevelt’s friendliness to all races.” —Sculptor James Earle Fraser, 1940 The online exhibit is an interesting deeper look at the statue and controversy. https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/addressing-the-theodore-roosevelt-statue/making-the-statue https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/addressing-the-theodore-roo...
- tptacek 5y ago
  Further, in the context that statement was made, Roosevelt's "friendliness to all races" was freighted with some icky stuff --- that, for instance, leading them out of the darkness of their indigenous culture was a great favor done for them by western civilization.
  - defaultprimate 5y ago
    Yeah man, all cultures are valid and deserve to exist, even if they sacrifice thousands of children annually, regularly participate in cannibalism, etc. Westerners should have just ignored this stuff when they encountered it. The world would definitely be a better, more equitable place.
    - tptacek 5y ago
      You're making my argument for me.
      - defaultprimate 5y ago
        I'm sure I am, with your unrealistic perspective of human progress and development and the uncomfortable truths of history you refuse to acknowledge. I, for one, am glad we decided cultures like Nazism are not valid or worth preserving. It's unfortunate that only Western cultures are allowed to be viewed with a critical eye.
        ashwagary 5y ago
        >regularly participate in cannibalism >Westerners should have just ignored this stuff when they encountered it. That's odd because most of the cannabalism on the planet took place in Europe. The euro-anti-cannabalism stance is barely a century old. Remember, food scarcity wasn't an issue in much of the rest of the world and unlike Europe, the non-European world had enough medical/scientific knowledge to understand human meat cured no illnesses. So why dont we have many more Egyptain mummies? Because Europeans literally ate tens of thousands of them. The savages aren't who you think they are.
        defaultprimate 5y ago
        Weird how the West progressed but many cultures hadn't even invented the wheel by the time of colonialism. Nice try with the pre-enlightenment & pre-colonialism whataboutism though. Instances of cannibalism for reasons other than desperation or individual criminality are basically non existent in western culture after the 15th century, and were certainly not a staple of culture. This is even more true for things like human sacrifice. It's also completely false that cannibalism was more rampant in Europe than anywhere else. That's laughable. It was prolific in Africa, the Americas, Australia & New Zealand pre-colonialism, some parts of East Asia. Meanwhile hundreds of thousands of human sacrifice annually were taking place among native Americans. Cannibalism was and is a regular part of many African cultures, and also was widespread among native Americans. Some cultures are better than others. That's just a fact. And it's not just Nazis that are bad.
defaultprimate 5y ago
>represent guides According to the sculptor. What may they represent guides for? Perhaps some prominent expeditions Roosevelt was famous for that were critical in establishing the museum?