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This interpretation is completely ignorant of the history of this statue, the museum, and Roosevelt. Roosevelt was a long time champion for the Natural History
by q1w2 5y ago
This interpretation is completely ignorant of the history of this statue, the museum, and Roosevelt.
Roosevelt was a long time champion for the Natural History Museum and the research it did in the natural world. He funded the museum heavily, and then himself led a huge expedition into the Amazon to discover and map one of the main tributaries to the Amazon river, deep in uncharted south american jungle.
This statue was commissioned to represent that specific expedition, and the people next to him represent the people that HELPED his expedition. The creator wanted to INCLUDE them in the historical narrative.
It was a peaceful expedition. They found the tributary and mapped it, despite all nearly dying and contracting malaria. It's actually a famous book describing the expedition called The River or Doubt.
- tptacek 5y agoAgain, you're trying to educate me about Roosevelt, but I'm not making any contentions about Roosevelt being unworthy of prominent sculpture. The problem is this sculpture, which does not in fact depict Roosevelt's Amazon expedition. A good way to make a case in favor of the Equestrian Teddy is to cite artistic analysis that precedes the controversy over the sculpture's removal, when it became a culture war football. That way, you're less likely to accidentally retcon the work into something it isn't.
- defaultprimate 5y ago>which does not in fact depict Roosevelt's Amazon expedition Prove it
- tptacek 5y agoFor starters, the Native American and African men are metaphors, representing the continents of North America and Africa. You could have gotten this far just by going to the museum's web page.
- PebblesRox 5y agoAgreed, according to the sculptor himself, they are symbolic figures: “The two figures at [Roosevelt’s] side are guides symbolizing the continents of Africa and America, and if you choose may stand for Roosevelt’s friendliness to all races.” —Sculptor James Earle Fraser, 1940 The online exhibit is an interesting deeper look at the statue and controversy. https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/addressing-the-theodore-roosevelt-statue/making-the-statue https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/addressing-the-theodore-roo...
- tptacek 5y agoFurther, in the context that statement was made, Roosevelt's "friendliness to all races" was freighted with some icky stuff --- that, for instance, leading them out of the darkness of their indigenous culture was a great favor done for them by western civilization.
- defaultprimate 5y agoYeah man, all cultures are valid and deserve to exist, even if they sacrifice thousands of children annually, regularly participate in cannibalism, etc. Westerners should have just ignored this stuff when they encountered it. The world would definitely be a better, more equitable place.
- tptacek 5y agoYou're making my argument for me.
- defaultprimate 5y agoI'm sure I am, with your unrealistic perspective of human progress and development and the uncomfortable truths of history you refuse to acknowledge. I, for one, am glad we decided cultures like Nazism are not valid or worth preserving. It's unfortunate that only Western cultures are allowed to be viewed with a critical eye.
- mariodiana 5y agoYou're correct. A statue such as this one is difficult to interpret correctly unless you're actually standing before the statue, right where the viewer is supposed to be standing. A photo taken from a different angle skews the interpretation. When we look at the photo, the American and African natives have a downcast glance, as if they're subservient. However, the statue was originally placed on high. The photo loses that. From the proper viewing angle, the two natives are meeting the gaze of the viewer. That conveys a completely different message. They are on foot to make it clear that they are acting as guides, which wouldn't be clear if they were on horseback. Roosevelt is elevated on horseback because Roosevelt is the focus of the work. There is nothing wrong with that. Roosevelt's gaze goes off to the horizon to convey the fact that he's the explorer here. There is nothing wrong with that. The controversy is due to woke, self-righteousness, and anti-Western nihilism. If such sentiment is allowed to continue to metastasize, it will destroy civilization. Decent people need to push back.
- tptacek 5y agoNo, the figures flanking Roosevelt are not meant to represent his guides on an Amazon expedition. When it comes both to the American frontier west and the continent of Africa, the word “explore” is doing a lot of interesting work.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago> No, the figures flanking Roosevelt are not meant to represent his guides on an Amazon expedition. What is your basis for saying this? q1w2 gave their basis for saying that it was about the Amazon expedition; what is your basis for saying that it isn't? Just "no it's not" doesn't work well as a refutation of an argument that had more than that.
- tptacek 5y agoI cited downthread what the figures were intended to mean, along with a source. The Amazon expedition thing seems like a weird just-so story. The real answer doesn't seem as lurid as some of the statue's critics want it to be, but it's still a problematic way to honor Roosevelt. Later Someone even replied to that comment with a cite directly from Fraser. I don't think this is so much in contention. The figures are not Roosevelt's helpers on the Amazon expedition.
- tedunangst 5y agoI've read the River of Doubt and don't remember the part about the statue commission. Also, why is he on horseback and not in a canoe?
- q1w2 5y agoHe was a soldier in the rough riders cavalry unit. The statue was meant to represent him both as the cavalry president, as well as the explorer.