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"TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash" - https://www.eetimes.com/tsmcs-arizona-culture-clash/ https://www.eetimes.com/tsmcs-arizona-culture-clash/ > Taiwan Semiconduct

"TSMC’s Arizona Culture Clash" - https://www.eetimes.com/tsmcs-arizona-culture-clash/ https://www.eetimes.com/tsmcs-arizona-culture-clash/ > Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. (TSMC) faces challenges managing employees at its new fab in Arizona who are unaccustomed to the long work hours and management culture that in Taiwan have helped make the company the world’s largest chip foundry.

nurspouse 5y ago
Having worked at Intel, I can tell you that the process side of Intel has similar work hours. This, in particular, rings true for Intel: > Different positions may have different requirements, so work hours vary, according to the principal engineer. “An equipment engineer might start work at 8 o’clock in the morning and leave around 9 o’clock at night, but is it normal? This may happen two or three days a week. On a production line, the equipment must be maintained. > “If you are a process engineer, it will be more stable. Maybe you can start work at 8:30 a.m.and leave before 7:30 p.m. If there are some urgent matters, you may have to stay later.” At Intel, process engineers had to attend a daily meeting at 7:40am (mandatory), and would rarely leave before 6pm (meetings scheduled at 5 or 6pm were common). I sometimes would wander around in that part of the building at 7pm and a significant fraction of cubicles would be filled. Almost all Intel process engineers have PhDs.
- Aperocky 5y ago
  How much are Intel process engineers paid to withstand that?
  - nwiswell 5y ago
    Very well for Oregon. But it's a little more nuanced than pay for two reasons. 1) Intel is a little like proto-Amazon. There is a preference for hiring people directly out of grad school and inducting them into the cult while they are still naive, so that's just what they come to expect for work-life balance. 2) The whole semiconductor industry is like this, and particularly so for production fabs. If you have domain expertise, you have no alternative work-life balance choice short of a career change.
    - nurspouse 5y ago
      > There is a preference for hiring people directly out of grad school and inducting them into the cult while they are still naive, so that's just what they come to expect for work-life balance. Heh. I once interviewed for an internal SW position that dealt with fab automation. I openly told them in the interview that I knew about their work culture and that was of great concern to me. Interviewer: I know what you mean, and I promise the org has been working to improve the conditions. It's not as bad as it was. Me: Great! However, for me the comparison isn't the "old you" but the rest of Intel. <Back and forth> Interviewer: Look, you're not going to get a 40 hour/week job anywhere in the SW industry! Me: Umm... All my SW engineer roles at Intel were 40 hour/week jobs. I haven't worked on weekends in years. <Proceed to list friends at big name SW companies who also don't work more than 40 hours/week> Interviewer: OK. We normally interview people straight out of college who don't know any better. Needless to say, I didn't take that job.
      - selimthegrim 5y ago
        When I was a green badge SWE at Intel all my (blue badge) coworkers were 15-20 years older than me. No one my age stuck around.
        nurspouse 5y ago
        I assume that's because of pay. Working conditions for SW folks is fairly decent at most of the company, except possibly for firmware folks. I suppose some people didn't like their status in a HW company.
        selimthegrim 5y ago
        I was in Validation.
  - nurspouse 5y ago
    Good in terms of process engineers, poor compared to FAANG SW Engineers.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
reducesuffering 5y ago
Similarly, there's a Netflix movie by Obama's production company called American Factory that dealt with the culture clash of a Chinese glass factory in America: https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/american_factory https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/american_factory

nurspouse 5y ago

Having worked at Intel, I can tell you that the process side of Intel has similar work hours. This, in particular, rings true for Intel: > Different positions may have different requirements, so work hours vary, according to the principal engineer. “An equipment engineer might start work at 8 o’clock in the morning and leave around 9 o’clock at night, but is it normal? This may happen two or three days a week. On a production line, the equipment must be maintained. > “If you are a process engineer, it will be more stable. Maybe you can start work at 8:30 a.m.and leave before 7:30 p.m. If there are some urgent matters, you may have to stay later.” At Intel, process engineers had to attend a daily meeting at 7:40am (mandatory), and would rarely leave before 6pm (meetings scheduled at 5 or 6pm were common). I sometimes would wander around in that part of the building at 7pm and a significant fraction of cubicles would be filled. Almost all Intel process engineers have PhDs.

Aperocky 5y ago
How much are Intel process engineers paid to withstand that?
- nwiswell 5y ago
  Very well for Oregon. But it's a little more nuanced than pay for two reasons. 1) Intel is a little like proto-Amazon. There is a preference for hiring people directly out of grad school and inducting them into the cult while they are still naive, so that's just what they come to expect for work-life balance. 2) The whole semiconductor industry is like this, and particularly so for production fabs. If you have domain expertise, you have no alternative work-life balance choice short of a career change.
  - nurspouse 5y ago
    > There is a preference for hiring people directly out of grad school and inducting them into the cult while they are still naive, so that's just what they come to expect for work-life balance. Heh. I once interviewed for an internal SW position that dealt with fab automation. I openly told them in the interview that I knew about their work culture and that was of great concern to me. Interviewer: I know what you mean, and I promise the org has been working to improve the conditions. It's not as bad as it was. Me: Great! However, for me the comparison isn't the "old you" but the rest of Intel. <Back and forth> Interviewer: Look, you're not going to get a 40 hour/week job anywhere in the SW industry! Me: Umm... All my SW engineer roles at Intel were 40 hour/week jobs. I haven't worked on weekends in years. <Proceed to list friends at big name SW companies who also don't work more than 40 hours/week> Interviewer: OK. We normally interview people straight out of college who don't know any better. Needless to say, I didn't take that job.
    - selimthegrim 5y ago
      When I was a green badge SWE at Intel all my (blue badge) coworkers were 15-20 years older than me. No one my age stuck around.
      - nurspouse 5y ago
        I assume that's because of pay. Working conditions for SW folks is fairly decent at most of the company, except possibly for firmware folks. I suppose some people didn't like their status in a HW company.
        selimthegrim 5y ago
        I was in Validation.
- nurspouse 5y ago
  Good in terms of process engineers, poor compared to FAANG SW Engineers.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

reducesuffering 5y ago

Similarly, there's a Netflix movie by Obama's production company called American Factory that dealt with the culture clash of a Chinese glass factory in America: https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/american_factory https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/american_factory