3 ms·

So in your world there are only games employing the latest features, and "retro" games from the 80s and the 90ies, and nothing else? Ok. As far as I know WebGP

So in your world there are only games employing the latest features, and "retro" games from the 80s and the 90ies, and nothing else? Ok. As far as I know WebGPU doesn't lack any significant features beside raytracing (They are prioritizing the MVP, and raytracing could come later). Some of the newest features like mesh shaders are not yet supported by the native engines either, because there isn't a sufficient hardware base. Intel for example will support mesh shaders only in the yet to be released Alechemist GPU.

pjmlp 5y ago
What can I say, that is the quality of most WebGL games anyway. 10 years later there still isn't something at the same level of Infinity Blade.
- nchi3 5y ago
  I think one big difference with WebGL and WebGPU is that WebGL was never really a target that you'd use for native applications. I've never heard of WebGL running outside of a browser (you'd use OpenGL ES for that), whereas I think native WebGPU has the potential to end up being the OpenGL replacement people have been asking for for years. It definitely won't kill Unity or Unreal, but I have hopes that it will make developing without a ready-made engine a bit more attractive at least!
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    I don't see any benefit in using a castrated 3D API outside the browser. Want Vulkan/DX12/Metal without boilerplate? Just use Ogre or Godot, among endless other options. Even Qt is better than what WebGPU is capable of.
    - nchi3 5y ago
      >I don't see any benefit in using a castrated 3D API outside the browser. Castrated how? A single digit performance loss compared to the most extremely complex graphics APIs which aren't properly cross-platform? >Want Vulkan/DX12/Metal without boilerplate? >Just use Ogre or Godot, among endless other options. "I want a graphics API!" - "Use this game engine or this old and outdated graphics library instead" >Even Qt is better than what WebGPU is capable of. Ah, is it? Do you have any example of implementing forward+ rendering in pure Qt? No? What about GPU compute? Not that either?
      - pjmlp 5y ago
        Castrated by the security constraints of being a MVP 1.0 API to fit into the security sandbox of a Web browser. By its nature cannot be more than that what browser do. In case you missed the train, Qt now makes direct use of Metal, Vulkan, and DirectX 12. I guess you were too busy keeping up with WGSL changes to notice that.
        nchi3 5y ago
        >Castrated by the security constraints of being a MVP 1.0 API to fit into the security sandbox of a Web browser. What security contraints are you thinking of which are making it castrated? In what meaninful ways is it castrated? > In case you missed the train, Qt now makes direct use of Metal, Vulkan, and DirectX 12. So with Qt, can I write a complete renderer with advanced techniques, and have it run on all 3 platforms without changing a single file? If not, how is it relevant to even mention?
        pjmlp 5y ago
        Qt3D is the ultimate goal for that, yes. Here is a little secret, thanks to extension spaghetti and driver bugs, there is seldom "without changing a single file" unless it is some toy app, instead of being used across all possible consumer hardware. Plus you are focusing too much on Qt while being defensive for WebGPU on native deployments, there are plenty of other middleware I can use as example.
        nullifidian 5y ago
        Qt3D examples use GLSL shaders. This example has 3 shader variants for different platforms https://code.qt.io/cgit/qt/qt3d.git/tree/examples/qt3d/advancedcustommaterial/shaders?h=6.3 https://code.qt.io/cgit/qt/qt3d.git/tree/examples/qt3d/advan... What are you talking about? Are you saying that https://doc.qt.io/qt-6/qsgmaterialshader.html https://doc.qt.io/qt-6/qsgmaterialshader.html is less "castrated" than WGSL ? Doesn't look like it. I don't even see the spec, it only says "Vulkan-style GLSL" >Here is a little secret Google and Apple definitely have more resources to spend standardizing WGSL (WebGPU has a Conformance Test Suite) than whoever owns QT this time of the year.

pjmlp 5y ago

What can I say, that is the quality of most WebGL games anyway. 10 years later there still isn't something at the same level of Infinity Blade.

nchi3 5y ago
I think one big difference with WebGL and WebGPU is that WebGL was never really a target that you'd use for native applications. I've never heard of WebGL running outside of a browser (you'd use OpenGL ES for that), whereas I think native WebGPU has the potential to end up being the OpenGL replacement people have been asking for for years. It definitely won't kill Unity or Unreal, but I have hopes that it will make developing without a ready-made engine a bit more attractive at least!
- pjmlp 5y ago
  I don't see any benefit in using a castrated 3D API outside the browser. Want Vulkan/DX12/Metal without boilerplate? Just use Ogre or Godot, among endless other options. Even Qt is better than what WebGPU is capable of.
  - nchi3 5y ago
    >I don't see any benefit in using a castrated 3D API outside the browser. Castrated how? A single digit performance loss compared to the most extremely complex graphics APIs which aren't properly cross-platform? >Want Vulkan/DX12/Metal without boilerplate? >Just use Ogre or Godot, among endless other options. "I want a graphics API!" - "Use this game engine or this old and outdated graphics library instead" >Even Qt is better than what WebGPU is capable of. Ah, is it? Do you have any example of implementing forward+ rendering in pure Qt? No? What about GPU compute? Not that either?
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      Castrated by the security constraints of being a MVP 1.0 API to fit into the security sandbox of a Web browser. By its nature cannot be more than that what browser do. In case you missed the train, Qt now makes direct use of Metal, Vulkan, and DirectX 12. I guess you were too busy keeping up with WGSL changes to notice that.
      - nchi3 5y ago
        >Castrated by the security constraints of being a MVP 1.0 API to fit into the security sandbox of a Web browser. What security contraints are you thinking of which are making it castrated? In what meaninful ways is it castrated? > In case you missed the train, Qt now makes direct use of Metal, Vulkan, and DirectX 12. So with Qt, can I write a complete renderer with advanced techniques, and have it run on all 3 platforms without changing a single file? If not, how is it relevant to even mention?
        pjmlp 5y ago
        Qt3D is the ultimate goal for that, yes. Here is a little secret, thanks to extension spaghetti and driver bugs, there is seldom "without changing a single file" unless it is some toy app, instead of being used across all possible consumer hardware. Plus you are focusing too much on Qt while being defensive for WebGPU on native deployments, there are plenty of other middleware I can use as example.
        nullifidian 5y ago
        Qt3D examples use GLSL shaders. This example has 3 shader variants for different platforms https://code.qt.io/cgit/qt/qt3d.git/tree/examples/qt3d/advancedcustommaterial/shaders?h=6.3 https://code.qt.io/cgit/qt/qt3d.git/tree/examples/qt3d/advan... What are you talking about? Are you saying that https://doc.qt.io/qt-6/qsgmaterialshader.html https://doc.qt.io/qt-6/qsgmaterialshader.html is less "castrated" than WGSL ? Doesn't look like it. I don't even see the spec, it only says "Vulkan-style GLSL" >Here is a little secret Google and Apple definitely have more resources to spend standardizing WGSL (WebGPU has a Conformance Test Suite) than whoever owns QT this time of the year.