3 ms·

We're not talking about supporting things years ago though, we're talking about supporting it now which is a few years after, when it's been stable and supporte

by boudin 5y ago

We're not talking about supporting things years ago though, we're talking about supporting it now which is a few years after, when it's been stable and supported across the whole ecosystem for a quite a while. That's their job, providing multi-platform video-conferencing and screen sharing. If they can't do that they could chose to drop their app and try to build a decent web version instead because this thing is quite an horror show as well. Screen sharing works well in Chromium and Firefox.

AshamedCaptain 5y ago
Less than a year ago is NOT "quite a while". A couple years ago is also not quite a while. The fast distributions have a 2 year release cycle for their LTS releases; even longer on the slower distributions. When you have an API that has been stable and working on these distributions for _at least_ 2 of these releases, maybe I will consider using it. I'm not going to rewrite my core business every other year just to use today's API for it to change again by the next release. I blame the distributions that literally _break_ programs one release to the next without even bothering to ensure that the newer API is working. I will bet that most of Zoom's Linux-using enterprise customer base is still on Redhat6-7 or similarly old releases, and that is where most of their money likely comes from. Note their support pages explicitly claims they still support them.
- boudin 5y ago
  You mean 3 years ago? It is a while. Definitely enough, lot of software implemented it in the meantime. Zoom is actually the only one I know that didn't LTS distribution before that are on X11, so this discussion doesn't even apply, supporting both is definitely possible since they already support X11.
  - AshamedCaptain 5y ago
    No, I mean last year. The current API for screencast (the only one which might work on anything other than Gnome) uses Pipewire and even OBS didn't support it until last year.
    - boudin 5y ago
      No, Pipewire and xdg-desktop have been there for ~3 years. OBS supported Wayland for ~2 years (maybe more, but I've been using it for ~2 years), but you had to install a third party plugin for it, and the app itself was running in Xwayland. The Flatpak version did include the plugin for a while. And it's not MIGHT work on anything other than Gnome, it DOES.
      - AshamedCaptain 5y ago
        Even the _current_ LTS from Ubuntu does not ship Pipewire 0.3, which is _required_ to use the portal API for screencasting (no dma-buf import in pipewire 0.2), unless you want for it to be significantly slower than using X11 and Xshm. So this API doesn't even work in the current fastest-LTS-cycle distro. > And it's not MIGHT work on anything other than Gnome, it DOES. well, I say that because even thought single-window screencasting now works in Gnome since sometime around last year, when I try to do it on _anything_ else I get a black screen. And turns out because _as of today_ it is not yet implemented for wlr https://github.com/emersion/xdg-desktop-portal-wlr/blob/c34d09877cb55eb353311b5e85bf50443be9439d/src/screencast/screencast.c#L288 https://github.com/emersion/xdg-desktop-portal-wlr/blob/c34d... This stuff is just way too recent and unstable and changing every day.
        boudin 5y ago
        Ubuntu LTS is on x11, not wayland. So pipewire is irrelevant here. Pipewire and xdg-desktop are fairly new but not changing every day at all, that's just pure lies. Now that's it's supported by almost all software but zoom, it's unlikely to introduce big breaking changes as well in the future. If the compositor itself do not support one part of it, it's the problem of the compositor itself, not Zoom, it won't change a thing on Zoom sides. That's exactly the concept behind it being a protocol that abstract the compositor.

by boudin 5y ago

AshamedCaptain 5y ago

Less than a year ago is NOT "quite a while". A couple years ago is also not quite a while. The fast distributions have a 2 year release cycle for their LTS releases; even longer on the slower distributions. When you have an API that has been stable and working on these distributions for _at least_ 2 of these releases, maybe I will consider using it. I'm not going to rewrite my core business every other year just to use today's API for it to change again by the next release. I blame the distributions that literally _break_ programs one release to the next without even bothering to ensure that the newer API is working. I will bet that most of Zoom's Linux-using enterprise customer base is still on Redhat6-7 or similarly old releases, and that is where most of their money likely comes from. Note their support pages explicitly claims they still support them.

boudin 5y ago
You mean 3 years ago? It is a while. Definitely enough, lot of software implemented it in the meantime. Zoom is actually the only one I know that didn't LTS distribution before that are on X11, so this discussion doesn't even apply, supporting both is definitely possible since they already support X11.
- AshamedCaptain 5y ago
  No, I mean last year. The current API for screencast (the only one which might work on anything other than Gnome) uses Pipewire and even OBS didn't support it until last year.
  - boudin 5y ago
    No, Pipewire and xdg-desktop have been there for ~3 years. OBS supported Wayland for ~2 years (maybe more, but I've been using it for ~2 years), but you had to install a third party plugin for it, and the app itself was running in Xwayland. The Flatpak version did include the plugin for a while. And it's not MIGHT work on anything other than Gnome, it DOES.
    - AshamedCaptain 5y ago
      Even the _current_ LTS from Ubuntu does not ship Pipewire 0.3, which is _required_ to use the portal API for screencasting (no dma-buf import in pipewire 0.2), unless you want for it to be significantly slower than using X11 and Xshm. So this API doesn't even work in the current fastest-LTS-cycle distro. > And it's not MIGHT work on anything other than Gnome, it DOES. well, I say that because even thought single-window screencasting now works in Gnome since sometime around last year, when I try to do it on _anything_ else I get a black screen. And turns out because _as of today_ it is not yet implemented for wlr https://github.com/emersion/xdg-desktop-portal-wlr/blob/c34d09877cb55eb353311b5e85bf50443be9439d/src/screencast/screencast.c#L288 https://github.com/emersion/xdg-desktop-portal-wlr/blob/c34d... This stuff is just way too recent and unstable and changing every day.
      - boudin 5y ago
        Ubuntu LTS is on x11, not wayland. So pipewire is irrelevant here. Pipewire and xdg-desktop are fairly new but not changing every day at all, that's just pure lies. Now that's it's supported by almost all software but zoom, it's unlikely to introduce big breaking changes as well in the future. If the compositor itself do not support one part of it, it's the problem of the compositor itself, not Zoom, it won't change a thing on Zoom sides. That's exactly the concept behind it being a protocol that abstract the compositor.