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I still cannot run a Wayland session on my machine w/ an nvidia 3080 with the latest drivers. It either fails to boot (KDE) or runs at about 15 FPS (Gnome). It

by suby 5y ago

I still cannot run a Wayland session on my machine w/ an nvidia 3080 with the latest drivers. It either fails to boot (KDE) or runs at about 15 FPS (Gnome). It seems a little unreasonable to be this mad at a company for not supporting an environment that doesn't work for the vast majority of hardware out there. Especially given that you can just use Zoom within Firefox.

Hakashiro 5y ago
Using Linux is not a practical decision. It is an ethical/moral decision or simply just because you like tinkering. That's fine. I like getting shit done. But then, getting mad because your favourite closed source company doesn't support Linux well is a little ridiculous. Zoom works fine on macOS and Windows. Linux is always bound to have issues one way or another, and if that's not enough, there's not even an incentive for developers to do things the right way, so get over it.
tapoxi 5y ago
This is just an Nvidia issue, they spent years trying to push their own driver model and have only recently come around.
mixedCase 5y ago
While this doesn't detract from your argument given the timelines; if you're on Arch, try again. I believe it was yesterday that the one major Qt fix that made Wayland KDE usable on Nvidia landed. Apparently Sway too has worked fine since the release of Nvidia drivers with GBM support. I'm on AMD right now so can't confirm.
- mijoharas 5y ago
  As an nvidia hostage I can confirm that arch and sway works. (currently works out of the box with nouveau, I think I previously had to mess around with the proprietary driver and wayland-eglstreams. That stopped working around when the new driver with GBM support was released I think. uninstalling the eglstreams and switching to nouveau fixed it)
funcDropShadow 5y ago
I've been using Zoom on Gnome almost daily in the last three years. I've basically no problem with video conference itself. Video just works for me. But audio is a never ending story. Zoom randomly selects other audio devices, when I quit one video session and start another. Sometimes, I have to to quit zoom and start it again. Sometimes I have to disconnect my table speaker/microphone to be able to use it in zoom again. It still works with every other software I've tried. When I start zoom, I get the dialog to share crash information 95% of the times I start zoom. Zoom is not able to store my account password or even the username under linux. So, when I open my macbook, it's zoom client wakes up, disconnects my zoom client on linux and I have to go fetch my zoom password from 1password once more. The zoom client under linux fails to safe room passwords all the time. The Zoom client makes it extra hard to call it with command line args to open a special room including password immediately. I could go on. It is just a huge pain in the ... . But most "entreprise grade" competitors are far worse.
- cluoma 5y ago
  Same audio issues here. Zoom always wants to set my mic level to 0 and change the default output source for whatever reason. My last company used Teams which I had a much better experience with on Linux (gnome+xorg) than Zoom.
  - buzzwordninja 5y ago
    Oh, I had that problem. Settings, Audio, uncheck Automatically adjust microphone volume.
  - aidenn0 5y ago
    Teams is terrible on Linux for me, but which thing is broken changes from version to version. A few examples: - My USB headset only works for the first call. Restarting teams let's me use it for one more call - joining a meeting from the calendar spins forever. Doing it from the chat list works fine - incoming calls don't ring my Linux teams, but ring everywhere else - the settings for setting which device to use rarely have any effect; I can use any pulse mixer to switch though
boudin 5y ago
Most people uses intel igpus no? There's a good nvidia population but it's not the majority, especially in a work environment. The good news is that Nvidia has finally decided to fix its drivers, it's still beta though.
- suby 5y ago
  Thank you, that's a fair point. I was only considering the AMD vs Nvidia marketshare.
- pdimitar 5y ago
  > The good news is that Nvidia has finally decided to fix its drivers, it's still beta though. Can you elaborate on that?
  - Arkanosis 5y ago
    I assume GP was thinking of Nvidia having started to work on the GBM API, available starting with nvidia 495.44: https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/181274/en-us https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/181274/en...
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      I think there's a little irony there, considering that the same update that introduced GBM also created a pretty terrible issue where Nvidia would flood your DBUS channels with garbage until you system runs out of memory and crashes. In other words, "fix" is a relative term.
  - nemetroid 5y ago
    This should give a rough idea of the order of events: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NVIDIA-GBM-Mesa-Backend-Alt https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NVIDIA-G... https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Mesa-21.2-Alternate-GBM https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Mesa-21.... https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NVIDIA-495.29.05-Linux https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NVIDIA-4...
phkahler 5y ago
>> I still cannot run a Wayland session on my machine w/ an nvidia 3080 with the latest drivers. You might try buying hardware that has proper Linux support. That would include graphics from AMD or Intel, and might even include Apple before nvidia gets it together.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  They are probably running a distro with an old kernel and can't be "bothered" to figure out and fix the actual issue.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- suby 5y ago
  I was aware that AMD had officially supported open source linux drivers, and that Nvidia did not support Wayland. Unfortunately, I needed a machine which would work well with the existing machine learning ecosystem, and that means getting an nvidia card over AMD. It's pretty terrible that the machine learning ecosystem is centered around nvidia hardware.
  - phkahler 5y ago
    Yeah, 15 years ago it was nvidia for Linux because they were the only ones with functioning graphics drivers even if they were closed source. Now it's similar for ML on Linux even though for regular graphics the situation has reversed. I suppose many new areas start out with proprietary solutions and become more open and standardized over time?
  - Steltek 5y ago
    Has anyone tried using an AMD card for desktop/Wayland alongside an Nvidia card for ML/CUDA? Especially with Sway? I use Sway/AMD for desktop but all the photogrammetry software out there requires CUDA. It's a bit of a PITA.
smcl 5y ago
I dunno. This isn't a person who's throwing a tantrum because something just didn't work perfectly. This is a pretty even-handed description of a problem whose solution was delivered to Zoom on a plate multiple times, which they repeatedly ignored before declaring that they personally discovered the cause and then blamed Gnome. I would have understood if this person got upset and wrote expletive-laden write-up because it's quite an irritating sequence of events, but that's not what this is.
- suby 5y ago
  I read it in a much different tone, but maybe that was me reading too much into it.
eptcyka 5y ago
The vast majority definitely isn't running Linux with a 3080. I've been running Wayland for 5 years on Gnome on AMD and Intel GPUs without issues.
- suby 5y ago
  I wasn't claiming the vast majority were running a 3080, merely that they were running an nvidia card. I mentioned the 3080 to demonstrate that the FPS problems were not a matter of old hw. Regardless, I was wrong on this because I wasn't considering integrated gpu's.
pkulak 5y ago
Vast majority? I just searched for "laptop" on BestBuy and didn't see a single nvidia GPU in three page scrolls.
dathinab 5y ago
> the vast majority of hardware 3080 is definitely not the vast majority of hardware. The vast majority of hardware is: - older - a lot of Laptop integrated graphics - a lot of less expensive graphic cards Like, I just went and took a look at the price of a 3080 in Germany, no joke it's 1.500€+ on Amazone and Ebay. That is 50%+ more then most people can/want to afford to spend for there whole computer! In the steam survey it has 1.16% usage, and as a game related Survey it's already biased in it's favor as all the "simple office work only" systems won't even show up there. I wouldn't be surprised if for Zoom relevant usage it's more like 0.2% (as it includes many more "office focused" systems then gaming systems) or so. So kinda irrelevant?
- dathinab 5y ago
  If anyone cares: All RTX 3000 GPUs (both non-TI an TI) together are around 11.4%. Which sounds like quite a bit. But again this are systems wit Steam installed.
peakaboo 5y ago
I run 300 fps with a nvidia card in counterstrike using wayland and gnome, so perhaps it's not the driver that is your problem.
vetinari 5y ago
> nvidia 3080... vast majority of hardware out there Uhm, no. Nvidia GPUs are not the vast majority. Unless you are gamer and talking about other gamers, then it might be right, but otherwise, Intel is the wast majority and Intel has had Wayland working fine since forever now. Intel is not alone in this, either. My AMD Vega64 was running Wayland fine since I bought it in 2017. So if your Nvidia has a problem, ask the people you paid your money to, when they want to solve it.

by suby 5y ago

Hakashiro 5y ago

Using Linux is not a practical decision. It is an ethical/moral decision or simply just because you like tinkering. That's fine. I like getting shit done. But then, getting mad because your favourite closed source company doesn't support Linux well is a little ridiculous. Zoom works fine on macOS and Windows. Linux is always bound to have issues one way or another, and if that's not enough, there's not even an incentive for developers to do things the right way, so get over it.

tapoxi 5y ago

This is just an Nvidia issue, they spent years trying to push their own driver model and have only recently come around.

mixedCase 5y ago

While this doesn't detract from your argument given the timelines; if you're on Arch, try again. I believe it was yesterday that the one major Qt fix that made Wayland KDE usable on Nvidia landed. Apparently Sway too has worked fine since the release of Nvidia drivers with GBM support. I'm on AMD right now so can't confirm.

mijoharas 5y ago
As an nvidia hostage I can confirm that arch and sway works. (currently works out of the box with nouveau, I think I previously had to mess around with the proprietary driver and wayland-eglstreams. That stopped working around when the new driver with GBM support was released I think. uninstalling the eglstreams and switching to nouveau fixed it)

funcDropShadow 5y ago

I've been using Zoom on Gnome almost daily in the last three years. I've basically no problem with video conference itself. Video just works for me. But audio is a never ending story. Zoom randomly selects other audio devices, when I quit one video session and start another. Sometimes, I have to to quit zoom and start it again. Sometimes I have to disconnect my table speaker/microphone to be able to use it in zoom again. It still works with every other software I've tried. When I start zoom, I get the dialog to share crash information 95% of the times I start zoom. Zoom is not able to store my account password or even the username under linux. So, when I open my macbook, it's zoom client wakes up, disconnects my zoom client on linux and I have to go fetch my zoom password from 1password once more. The zoom client under linux fails to safe room passwords all the time. The Zoom client makes it extra hard to call it with command line args to open a special room including password immediately. I could go on. It is just a huge pain in the ... . But most "entreprise grade" competitors are far worse.

cluoma 5y ago
Same audio issues here. Zoom always wants to set my mic level to 0 and change the default output source for whatever reason. My last company used Teams which I had a much better experience with on Linux (gnome+xorg) than Zoom.
- buzzwordninja 5y ago
  Oh, I had that problem. Settings, Audio, uncheck Automatically adjust microphone volume.
- aidenn0 5y ago
  Teams is terrible on Linux for me, but which thing is broken changes from version to version. A few examples: - My USB headset only works for the first call. Restarting teams let's me use it for one more call - joining a meeting from the calendar spins forever. Doing it from the chat list works fine - incoming calls don't ring my Linux teams, but ring everywhere else - the settings for setting which device to use rarely have any effect; I can use any pulse mixer to switch though

boudin 5y ago

Most people uses intel igpus no? There's a good nvidia population but it's not the majority, especially in a work environment. The good news is that Nvidia has finally decided to fix its drivers, it's still beta though.

suby 5y ago
Thank you, that's a fair point. I was only considering the AMD vs Nvidia marketshare.
pdimitar 5y ago
> The good news is that Nvidia has finally decided to fix its drivers, it's still beta though. Can you elaborate on that?
- Arkanosis 5y ago
  I assume GP was thinking of Nvidia having started to work on the GBM API, available starting with nvidia 495.44: https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/181274/en-us https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/181274/en...
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    I think there's a little irony there, considering that the same update that introduced GBM also created a pretty terrible issue where Nvidia would flood your DBUS channels with garbage until you system runs out of memory and crashes. In other words, "fix" is a relative term.
- nemetroid 5y ago
  This should give a rough idea of the order of events: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NVIDIA-GBM-Mesa-Backend-Alt https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NVIDIA-G... https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Mesa-21.2-Alternate-GBM https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Mesa-21.... https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NVIDIA-495.29.05-Linux https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NVIDIA-4...

phkahler 5y ago

>> I still cannot run a Wayland session on my machine w/ an nvidia 3080 with the latest drivers. You might try buying hardware that has proper Linux support. That would include graphics from AMD or Intel, and might even include Apple before nvidia gets it together.

encryptluks2 5y ago
They are probably running a distro with an old kernel and can't be "bothered" to figure out and fix the actual issue.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
suby 5y ago
I was aware that AMD had officially supported open source linux drivers, and that Nvidia did not support Wayland. Unfortunately, I needed a machine which would work well with the existing machine learning ecosystem, and that means getting an nvidia card over AMD. It's pretty terrible that the machine learning ecosystem is centered around nvidia hardware.
- phkahler 5y ago
  Yeah, 15 years ago it was nvidia for Linux because they were the only ones with functioning graphics drivers even if they were closed source. Now it's similar for ML on Linux even though for regular graphics the situation has reversed. I suppose many new areas start out with proprietary solutions and become more open and standardized over time?
- Steltek 5y ago
  Has anyone tried using an AMD card for desktop/Wayland alongside an Nvidia card for ML/CUDA? Especially with Sway? I use Sway/AMD for desktop but all the photogrammetry software out there requires CUDA. It's a bit of a PITA.

smcl 5y ago

I dunno. This isn't a person who's throwing a tantrum because something just didn't work perfectly. This is a pretty even-handed description of a problem whose solution was delivered to Zoom on a plate multiple times, which they repeatedly ignored before declaring that they personally discovered the cause and then blamed Gnome. I would have understood if this person got upset and wrote expletive-laden write-up because it's quite an irritating sequence of events, but that's not what this is.

suby 5y ago
I read it in a much different tone, but maybe that was me reading too much into it.

eptcyka 5y ago

The vast majority definitely isn't running Linux with a 3080. I've been running Wayland for 5 years on Gnome on AMD and Intel GPUs without issues.

suby 5y ago
I wasn't claiming the vast majority were running a 3080, merely that they were running an nvidia card. I mentioned the 3080 to demonstrate that the FPS problems were not a matter of old hw. Regardless, I was wrong on this because I wasn't considering integrated gpu's.

pkulak 5y ago

Vast majority? I just searched for "laptop" on BestBuy and didn't see a single nvidia GPU in three page scrolls.

dathinab 5y ago

> the vast majority of hardware 3080 is definitely not the vast majority of hardware. The vast majority of hardware is: - older - a lot of Laptop integrated graphics - a lot of less expensive graphic cards Like, I just went and took a look at the price of a 3080 in Germany, no joke it's 1.500€+ on Amazone and Ebay. That is 50%+ more then most people can/want to afford to spend for there whole computer! In the steam survey it has 1.16% usage, and as a game related Survey it's already biased in it's favor as all the "simple office work only" systems won't even show up there. I wouldn't be surprised if for Zoom relevant usage it's more like 0.2% (as it includes many more "office focused" systems then gaming systems) or so. So kinda irrelevant?

dathinab 5y ago
If anyone cares: All RTX 3000 GPUs (both non-TI an TI) together are around 11.4%. Which sounds like quite a bit. But again this are systems wit Steam installed.

peakaboo 5y ago

I run 300 fps with a nvidia card in counterstrike using wayland and gnome, so perhaps it's not the driver that is your problem.

vetinari 5y ago

> nvidia 3080... vast majority of hardware out there Uhm, no. Nvidia GPUs are not the vast majority. Unless you are gamer and talking about other gamers, then it might be right, but otherwise, Intel is the wast majority and Intel has had Wayland working fine since forever now. Intel is not alone in this, either. My AMD Vega64 was running Wayland fine since I bought it in 2017. So if your Nvidia has a problem, ask the people you paid your money to, when they want to solve it.