4 ms·

I don't understand the dichotomy here - don't you use different equipment to clear the sidewalks than you use to clean the roads? Sidewalks are usually too smal

I don't understand the dichotomy here - don't you use different equipment to clear the sidewalks than you use to clean the roads? Sidewalks are usually too small for street size plows.

mortenlarsen 5y ago
Maybe manpower is the limiting factor and not machines? I would guess that the salary for driving a snowplow is higher in Sweden than many other places.
- bluGill 5y ago
  maybe, but you better pay what it costs. For snows of 15cm or so you can plow whenever, but anytime there is around 50cm you need to keep everything plowed during the storm no matter how much equipment and manpower it takes, otherwise you fall far enough behind you can't plow and need equipment for mining to clear the snow, at great expense. If even once in 10 years a snowfall expected to be 10cm turns into 60cm you will more than make up all the costs of just treating every snow fall as 60cm expected.
  - mortenlarsen 5y ago
    I have no knowledge about snowplowing and I was just guessing that the cost of labor could be a factor. "Low-paying" jobs pay a lot better in Scandinavia than most other places. Most (basically all) people are payed a living wage from a single full time (37-40 hours) job. I don't even know if being a snow-plow driver is a "low-paying" job, and I would guess that those who drive the plows have other tasks as well.
    - bluGill 5y ago
      I too know nothing about Sweden. In the US snow plowing for the public roads is fairly well paying. You do road repair in summer, and in winter plow snow. Cost of labor is a factor, but it isn't the only one. As I said, you are far better of having enough to keep ahead of the worst possible case snowfall than less people who can handle only the normal snowfall and take weeks to dig out of the bad ones. And that is just the pure monitory costs of clearing snow and says nothing about the other costs to society from being slow to clear snow (emergency services for example)
      - mortenlarsen 5y ago
        Since they are prioritizing and doing one before the other, I would guess that either they need the same people or the same machines to do it. I would expect different machines for the two tasks. So it must be people? Right? Anyway, I think their priorities are very sensible.
        bluGill 5y ago
        Different machine and different people both. There is no way around the fact that you need a lot of people to keep up with the snowfall, and falling behind is a lot more expensive in the long run. You can make something a priority, but the difference must be limited because of the nature of the ongoing work (unless you de-prioritize the other to the point where snow isn't plowed at all)
b112 5y ago
It's another clickbait title and article. Of course they clear everything at once, as soon as possible.
- Moru 5y ago
  But they do prioritize ofcourse, you can't plow everything at once. It's usually fixed within the day of the snowfall unless it's a bad snowstorm when it can take up to a couple of days until everything is done. Like we had several of last year. They first just run the plow everywhere, then they switch to machines to move the worst snowpiles away from corners and make more space for the next snowstorm so the plow can run again. If you don't do this, the roads will get smaller and smaller for each snowstorm. Priority is buss roads, main roads and priority 1 bicycle/walkways, then they start on priority 2 roads and bicycle/walkways. The sidewalks are used for snowdumps until they have time to remove them. The inner city areas doesn't have enough space to store snow so it gets carried by trucks to designated snowdumps that may or may not be empty by the next winter. Our town had several excavators digging in the snow piles all summer to try to make them melt faster. They didn't succeed this summer so they are dumping on top of last years snow.
VBprogrammer 5y ago
I live in London where snow is not really a thing. However, when I visited New York (after a major snow storm) I was really surprised by how little effort was made to make the sidewalk passable. In fact, the snow from the road was often piled 6ft high on the sidewalk. Perhaps this is why it's notable for a large percentage of the HN audience?

I don't understand the dichotomy here - don't you use different equipment to clear the sidewalks than you use to clean the roads? Sidewalks are usually too small for street size plows.

mortenlarsen 5y ago

Maybe manpower is the limiting factor and not machines? I would guess that the salary for driving a snowplow is higher in Sweden than many other places.

bluGill 5y ago
maybe, but you better pay what it costs. For snows of 15cm or so you can plow whenever, but anytime there is around 50cm you need to keep everything plowed during the storm no matter how much equipment and manpower it takes, otherwise you fall far enough behind you can't plow and need equipment for mining to clear the snow, at great expense. If even once in 10 years a snowfall expected to be 10cm turns into 60cm you will more than make up all the costs of just treating every snow fall as 60cm expected.
- mortenlarsen 5y ago
  I have no knowledge about snowplowing and I was just guessing that the cost of labor could be a factor. "Low-paying" jobs pay a lot better in Scandinavia than most other places. Most (basically all) people are payed a living wage from a single full time (37-40 hours) job. I don't even know if being a snow-plow driver is a "low-paying" job, and I would guess that those who drive the plows have other tasks as well.
  - bluGill 5y ago
    I too know nothing about Sweden. In the US snow plowing for the public roads is fairly well paying. You do road repair in summer, and in winter plow snow. Cost of labor is a factor, but it isn't the only one. As I said, you are far better of having enough to keep ahead of the worst possible case snowfall than less people who can handle only the normal snowfall and take weeks to dig out of the bad ones. And that is just the pure monitory costs of clearing snow and says nothing about the other costs to society from being slow to clear snow (emergency services for example)
    - mortenlarsen 5y ago
      Since they are prioritizing and doing one before the other, I would guess that either they need the same people or the same machines to do it. I would expect different machines for the two tasks. So it must be people? Right? Anyway, I think their priorities are very sensible.
      - bluGill 5y ago
        Different machine and different people both. There is no way around the fact that you need a lot of people to keep up with the snowfall, and falling behind is a lot more expensive in the long run. You can make something a priority, but the difference must be limited because of the nature of the ongoing work (unless you de-prioritize the other to the point where snow isn't plowed at all)

b112 5y ago

It's another clickbait title and article. Of course they clear everything at once, as soon as possible.

Moru 5y ago
But they do prioritize ofcourse, you can't plow everything at once. It's usually fixed within the day of the snowfall unless it's a bad snowstorm when it can take up to a couple of days until everything is done. Like we had several of last year. They first just run the plow everywhere, then they switch to machines to move the worst snowpiles away from corners and make more space for the next snowstorm so the plow can run again. If you don't do this, the roads will get smaller and smaller for each snowstorm. Priority is buss roads, main roads and priority 1 bicycle/walkways, then they start on priority 2 roads and bicycle/walkways. The sidewalks are used for snowdumps until they have time to remove them. The inner city areas doesn't have enough space to store snow so it gets carried by trucks to designated snowdumps that may or may not be empty by the next winter. Our town had several excavators digging in the snow piles all summer to try to make them melt faster. They didn't succeed this summer so they are dumping on top of last years snow.

VBprogrammer 5y ago

I live in London where snow is not really a thing. However, when I visited New York (after a major snow storm) I was really surprised by how little effort was made to make the sidewalk passable. In fact, the snow from the road was often piled 6ft high on the sidewalk. Perhaps this is why it's notable for a large percentage of the HN audience?