5 ms·

This is extraordinary. The sample edits given at the end of the article go far beyond normal editorial changes. They completely change the meaning and content o

This is extraordinary. The sample edits given at the end of the article go far beyond normal editorial changes. They completely change the meaning and content of the poem. It is a _different poem_. This comment about the editor struck me: > "Now, when I bring this subject up among a certain crowd, they bristle. They become very defensive of Martin and downright antagonistic toward me while they list the many ways in which he is a wonderful man..." Does anyone know more about the relationship between Bukowski and Martin, and why Martin would be revered today? Why he would have supporters? Why he would even need supporters? (It seems odd that he'd have any role that meant he needed either detractors or fans; either seems a mistake in an editor.)

Hoasi 5y ago
Martin supported Bukowski early in his career (as a late-blossoming writer). There are many friendly mentions of him and Black Sparrow Press from Bukowski himself. They had a contract. Martin would publish anything Bukowski wrote, as long as he put himself to work. In hindsight, that offer does appear much less generous.
glenstein 5y ago
>The sample edits given at the end of the article go far beyond normal editorial changes. Right, as I was reading along, I thought how bad could this possibly be. But they changed: >I lost $40 >at the track >today >so I'm somewhat >bitter. To this: >and I won $400 >at the track >today >so I'm somewhat >pleased. Not that I've ever been a reader of Bukowski, but this is just changed into something that he simply didn't write. I had no idea that this was something that people did.
- kingcharles 5y ago
  Now I'm wondering what other books of poetry this has happened to and I didn't know it? Altering a poem is a whole different animal than editing a book or a movie, for instance.
  - sombremesa 5y ago
    > Altering a poem is a whole different animal than editing a book or a movie, for instance. I don’t know about that. George Lucas has managed to butcher his own movies after the fact, and newer audiences would never know. Hundreds of thousands of people still believe that “Go Set a Watchman” is a new book as opposed to the first draft of “To Kill a Mockingbird.”
clsec 5y ago
>Does anyone know more about the relationship between Bukowski and Martin, IMO his deal with Martin made it so Bukowski was able to write full time in the later years of his life. Otherwise he may have had to still work at the Post Office and only be able to write part time. >and why Martin would be revered today? Why he would have supporters? Why he would even need supporters? He's revered because he (Black Sparrow Press) published many works by authors who would have otherwise never gotten a publishing deal. His supporters are most likely fans of the authors he published and those from the San Francisco Beat Generation. He, and Black Sparrow Press, had/have a close relationship with City Lights Books and Lawrence Ferlinghetti.
rufus_foreman 5y ago
>> Does anyone know more about the relationship between Bukowski and Martin, and why Martin would be revered today? John Martin was the manager of an office supply business in LA and also a rare book collector. He founded Black Sparrow Press specifically to publish Bukowski, who at the time was publishing mostly in obscure magazines or in "chapbooks", which were essentially cheaply produced pamphlets. Martin sold some of the first editions from his collection to fund the company. He offered Bukowski $100 a month back then, something like $700 a month in today's dollars, to quit his post office job and write full time. Without that, Bukowski, who was what almost 50 years old at the time?, had the choice of either continuing to work at the post office and write on the side, or quit and write full time and face desperate poverty. Don't get me wrong, if this is accurate about what John Martin has done with his editing, it's horrible and wrong and contrary to some of the other comments here I do not think rape is too strong of a word for it. Hopefully the original works get published at some point. But without John Martin, most of the poem and stories that Bukowski wrote would have gone unwritten. I found out about Bukowski just randomly browsing the stacks in a university library in the 1980's and I remember the titles jumping out at me. Burning in water drowning in flame. South of no north. The days run away like wild horses over the hills. War all the time. Without John Martin, those books wouldn't have been in the stacks. I don't know about revered. I can defend John Martin but I can't defend his editing.

Hoasi 5y ago

Martin supported Bukowski early in his career (as a late-blossoming writer). There are many friendly mentions of him and Black Sparrow Press from Bukowski himself. They had a contract. Martin would publish anything Bukowski wrote, as long as he put himself to work. In hindsight, that offer does appear much less generous.

glenstein 5y ago

>The sample edits given at the end of the article go far beyond normal editorial changes. Right, as I was reading along, I thought how bad could this possibly be. But they changed: >I lost $40 >at the track >today >so I'm somewhat >bitter. To this: >and I won $400 >at the track >today >so I'm somewhat >pleased. Not that I've ever been a reader of Bukowski, but this is just changed into something that he simply didn't write. I had no idea that this was something that people did.

kingcharles 5y ago
Now I'm wondering what other books of poetry this has happened to and I didn't know it? Altering a poem is a whole different animal than editing a book or a movie, for instance.
- sombremesa 5y ago
  > Altering a poem is a whole different animal than editing a book or a movie, for instance. I don’t know about that. George Lucas has managed to butcher his own movies after the fact, and newer audiences would never know. Hundreds of thousands of people still believe that “Go Set a Watchman” is a new book as opposed to the first draft of “To Kill a Mockingbird.”

clsec 5y ago

>Does anyone know more about the relationship between Bukowski and Martin, IMO his deal with Martin made it so Bukowski was able to write full time in the later years of his life. Otherwise he may have had to still work at the Post Office and only be able to write part time. >and why Martin would be revered today? Why he would have supporters? Why he would even need supporters? He's revered because he (Black Sparrow Press) published many works by authors who would have otherwise never gotten a publishing deal. His supporters are most likely fans of the authors he published and those from the San Francisco Beat Generation. He, and Black Sparrow Press, had/have a close relationship with City Lights Books and Lawrence Ferlinghetti.

rufus_foreman 5y ago

>> Does anyone know more about the relationship between Bukowski and Martin, and why Martin would be revered today? John Martin was the manager of an office supply business in LA and also a rare book collector. He founded Black Sparrow Press specifically to publish Bukowski, who at the time was publishing mostly in obscure magazines or in "chapbooks", which were essentially cheaply produced pamphlets. Martin sold some of the first editions from his collection to fund the company. He offered Bukowski $100 a month back then, something like $700 a month in today's dollars, to quit his post office job and write full time. Without that, Bukowski, who was what almost 50 years old at the time?, had the choice of either continuing to work at the post office and write on the side, or quit and write full time and face desperate poverty. Don't get me wrong, if this is accurate about what John Martin has done with his editing, it's horrible and wrong and contrary to some of the other comments here I do not think rape is too strong of a word for it. Hopefully the original works get published at some point. But without John Martin, most of the poem and stories that Bukowski wrote would have gone unwritten. I found out about Bukowski just randomly browsing the stacks in a university library in the 1980's and I remember the titles jumping out at me. Burning in water drowning in flame. South of no north. The days run away like wild horses over the hills. War all the time. Without John Martin, those books wouldn't have been in the stacks. I don't know about revered. I can defend John Martin but I can't defend his editing.