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I don't think this is fundamentally about subscriptions. They're a different business model, but there are positives too: for example they align what users pay

I don't think this is fundamentally about subscriptions. They're a different business model, but there are positives too: for example they align what users pay far more closely with the value they get from a product. If you use a tool for one month, you pay a small amount, if you use it every month for years you pay more. In the old world, if you wanted to use purchase-once software just once, then you had to pay far more upfront. It aligns incentives too: developers are strongly incentivized to keep existing users happy, rather than ignoring them and constantly chasing the next new sale. I do think there's a financial/UX problem with subscriptions though, and a lot of shady players trying to abuse that. Really, imo banks need to provide subscription management services as a standard feature. They already know what continual billing is currently linked to your card - they should let you block renewing charges by vendor from your account directly. That'd give you complete control and visibility into all your subscriptions in one place, whether the vendor likes it or not.

hyphz 5y ago
If it was possible to subscribe only when you [i]used[/i] the software it would be fine, but even that would be awkward. I mean, the best case I can think of is Quantrix. It's an innovative spreadsheet progrem that tries to bring back the standards of Lotus Improv. I don't know of any equivalent in OSS. It used to have a perpetual license with small upgrades and while it was quite expensive, it means it could be bought to learn and experiment and if you needed to convince your boss to try it it's not that much of a layout. Then the company that makes it was bought by a financial services company who re-targeted at that market. They do not list the pricing on their site any more. Want to know what it is? $2000 a year, immediate and total loss on lapse. So basically individuals can't access it anymore, nobody can learn it, and there's very little chance of any company that doesn't already know it or doesn't have money to burn taking it up. Which is a kick in the teeth, because I think many people agree that the standard spreadsheet is a crock, and what was showing signs of being interesting or innovative in that area is now a locked-down rich club. I guess you could write an OSS version if you were up for being sued over spurious software patents by a company whose backers can just manufacture money at will. Yea. Or how about TheBrain? Their model had the potential for a ton of innovation based on evolving semantic technologies. What was their business model instead? Patent the Plex model to lock out competitors, push everyone's Brains into the cloud, go subscription, and then just sit. The upgrades have become smaller and smaller since the subscription came in.
mojzu 5y ago
This is the kind of thing I'd like to see, I'm not opposed to subscription services by themselves but the predatory and shady practices that often accompany them have made me default to negative assumptions about products and services that use them. I wonder if there are any potential consumer protection laws that could make the situation better, such as: - The same mechanism to subscribe must also be available to unsubscribe - Automatic billing is not assumed and must be opt-in, perhaps renewed occasionally - If a user does not use your service for the billing period you cannot charge them for it
judge2020 5y ago
Subscription management would be nice, but it’s a bit more complicated than simply blocking transactions; just because a tx doesn’t go through doesn’t mean you opted not to continue with the service, it just means the service provider was unable to collect on your payment. For new tech companies like Netflix, a lapsed subscription goes away easily since it’s prorated so they just stop providing you service, but many companies take the hostile route and send any lapsed subscriptions to collections without blocking access to their services.
xtracto 5y ago
Ha! You are on to something regarding banks. A couple of months ago I blocked allcky cards via App (so that only when you unblock it payments go through). At the end of the month all my subscription services whined that they couldn't charge me they sent an email saying that my subscription was at risk. Tidal, YouTube, Google Storage, AWS, among others. AWS and Google Drive did the right thing: it provided me a page where I could manually run the payment (after temporarily unlocking the card). YT and Tidal were terrible: after contacting their support (For YT I had to go to twitter... what a joke), they told me they had no way for me to pay manually. The only way was to wait for their automatic billing. Tidal was the worst: After two days they cancelled my plan (OK) and THEN I was able to repurchase the plan to ge charged there... and immediately after I paid , THEY BLOCKED MY IP!! Automated billing should be prohibited. Or at least companies should be forced to provide manual renewal option.
AlexandrB 5y ago
> It aligns incentives too: developers are strongly incentivized to keep existing users happy, rather than ignoring them and constantly chasing the next new sale. Alternately it incentivizes vendor lock-in. If you can't keep users happy, why not keep their data hostage instead?

hyphz 5y ago

If it was possible to subscribe only when you [i]used[/i] the software it would be fine, but even that would be awkward. I mean, the best case I can think of is Quantrix. It's an innovative spreadsheet progrem that tries to bring back the standards of Lotus Improv. I don't know of any equivalent in OSS. It used to have a perpetual license with small upgrades and while it was quite expensive, it means it could be bought to learn and experiment and if you needed to convince your boss to try it it's not that much of a layout. Then the company that makes it was bought by a financial services company who re-targeted at that market. They do not list the pricing on their site any more. Want to know what it is? $2000 a year, immediate and total loss on lapse. So basically individuals can't access it anymore, nobody can learn it, and there's very little chance of any company that doesn't already know it or doesn't have money to burn taking it up. Which is a kick in the teeth, because I think many people agree that the standard spreadsheet is a crock, and what was showing signs of being interesting or innovative in that area is now a locked-down rich club. I guess you could write an OSS version if you were up for being sued over spurious software patents by a company whose backers can just manufacture money at will. Yea. Or how about TheBrain? Their model had the potential for a ton of innovation based on evolving semantic technologies. What was their business model instead? Patent the Plex model to lock out competitors, push everyone's Brains into the cloud, go subscription, and then just sit. The upgrades have become smaller and smaller since the subscription came in.

mojzu 5y ago

This is the kind of thing I'd like to see, I'm not opposed to subscription services by themselves but the predatory and shady practices that often accompany them have made me default to negative assumptions about products and services that use them. I wonder if there are any potential consumer protection laws that could make the situation better, such as: - The same mechanism to subscribe must also be available to unsubscribe - Automatic billing is not assumed and must be opt-in, perhaps renewed occasionally - If a user does not use your service for the billing period you cannot charge them for it

judge2020 5y ago

Subscription management would be nice, but it’s a bit more complicated than simply blocking transactions; just because a tx doesn’t go through doesn’t mean you opted not to continue with the service, it just means the service provider was unable to collect on your payment. For new tech companies like Netflix, a lapsed subscription goes away easily since it’s prorated so they just stop providing you service, but many companies take the hostile route and send any lapsed subscriptions to collections without blocking access to their services.

xtracto 5y ago

Ha! You are on to something regarding banks. A couple of months ago I blocked allcky cards via App (so that only when you unblock it payments go through). At the end of the month all my subscription services whined that they couldn't charge me they sent an email saying that my subscription was at risk. Tidal, YouTube, Google Storage, AWS, among others. AWS and Google Drive did the right thing: it provided me a page where I could manually run the payment (after temporarily unlocking the card). YT and Tidal were terrible: after contacting their support (For YT I had to go to twitter... what a joke), they told me they had no way for me to pay manually. The only way was to wait for their automatic billing. Tidal was the worst: After two days they cancelled my plan (OK) and THEN I was able to repurchase the plan to ge charged there... and immediately after I paid , THEY BLOCKED MY IP!! Automated billing should be prohibited. Or at least companies should be forced to provide manual renewal option.

AlexandrB 5y ago

> It aligns incentives too: developers are strongly incentivized to keep existing users happy, rather than ignoring them and constantly chasing the next new sale. Alternately it incentivizes vendor lock-in. If you can't keep users happy, why not keep their data hostage instead?