4 ms·

> unchecked use, might put a whole society in danger. So you mean that if, for example, over 50% of the population was using a known mind-altering drug, societ

> unchecked use, might put a whole society in danger. So you mean that if, for example, over 50% of the population was using a known mind-altering drug, society might go to shit? Do prescription psychiatry medicines count? You might want to take a look at what % of the western world has such a prescription. Between opiods, amphetamine, and anti-depressants, I think the US passed the 50% mark some time ago.

sokoloff 5y ago
> over 50% of the population was using a known mind-altering drug, society might go to shit? You mean like caffeine? (Or chocolate? Or even refined sugar?)
sjcoles 5y ago
I worked in a pharmacy as a tech for a couple years. The amount of drugs the general population is on was *mind blowing*.
kumarvvr 5y ago
Absolutely. What ever I have read or heard about those drugs (most of it from peoples experiences on reddit and all), it is clear to me that they don't actually solve any issue, and simply make the mind numb. In some cases, perhaps that is required. But why is it that the worlds richest country need to keep 50% of its population on drugs? That is a societal flaw, and worryingly a self sustaining one at that. I also attribute it to the hyper-velocity lifestyles, lack of stable marriages, excessive consumption of media in general and social media in particular. And most importantly, a materialistic point of view where the whole purpose of life is for pleasure, partying and enjoyment.
- eecc 5y ago
  That’s a very reactionary attitude… you’re simply blaming all the “unknown” “new stuff” for everything negative in life. I bet people blamed excessive reading of books, or “a materialistic point of view” during the Romans, the Middle Ages… modernity… hey, who coined the phrase “o tempora! O mores!”
  - im3w1l 5y ago
    If we agree that there is a mental health crisis (I'm on the fence on that honestly, but if), then it becomes natural to consider the causes of it. And where else would we find the causes than in the "new stuff"? A useful question may be what "new stuff" is more and less likely to be the cause? Trying to think of something new that is definitely not the cause might be interesting.
- MadcapJake 5y ago
  > But why is it that the worlds richest country need to keep 50% of its population on drugs? 100% of humans on earth are on drugs. Everything we consume is mind-altering. Sugars are just as addictive as drugs if not moreso. This is not an exaggeration, it's a change in perspective; wrestling back control of our subjective experiences from those who would outlaw what they don't understand (or for more nefarious reasons...). We have to start looking at food especially food consumed for non nutritive purposes in this new lens too. Heck even singing and dancing have been used the world over to illicit an altered state. We also need to stop pining for a perfect self that is drug free. What does one gain by keeping oneself "pure"? It's not even possible but many limit the scope of what they consider mind-altering until the goal post matches their current state. Once you accept that and embrace the idea that our minds are simply faucets of sensory experience that we subconsciously keep at a slow trickle of manageable info, you can start enjoying the turning of the spigot. You can start to appreciate the different subjective experiences that all things provide. As an added bonus, we can all collectively change our tendency to look down upon those who've used and this energy can integrate others and prevent abuse. You don't have to look hard to find stories of reduced or eliminated drug enforcement bettering society. The fact that this research starts by calling it "impairment" tells you that they have come prepared with their rose-tinted glasses. I don't want to belittle their work but I fear they've already aligned themselves with the classic anti-drug ethos.
- datavirtue 5y ago
  I'm still wondering why the US is the only country with a steady supply of serial killers.
wincy 5y ago
When my wife and I were dealing with our daughter spending 9 months in the NICU at the childrens hospital, any time my wife would cry the nurses would “tattle” on her and the psychiatrist would contact her trying to give her antidepressants. She’d be extremely irritated each time. “My child is very ill and could die, the way I’m reacting is precisely the correct response and I wouldn’t want to blunt it or negate it in any way”. It just felt like we lived in the land of the Lotus Eaters or something.
achenet 5y ago
uh... caffeine? That's mind-altering.

sokoloff 5y ago

> over 50% of the population was using a known mind-altering drug, society might go to shit? You mean like caffeine? (Or chocolate? Or even refined sugar?)

sjcoles 5y ago

I worked in a pharmacy as a tech for a couple years. The amount of drugs the general population is on was *mind blowing*.

kumarvvr 5y ago

Absolutely. What ever I have read or heard about those drugs (most of it from peoples experiences on reddit and all), it is clear to me that they don't actually solve any issue, and simply make the mind numb. In some cases, perhaps that is required. But why is it that the worlds richest country need to keep 50% of its population on drugs? That is a societal flaw, and worryingly a self sustaining one at that. I also attribute it to the hyper-velocity lifestyles, lack of stable marriages, excessive consumption of media in general and social media in particular. And most importantly, a materialistic point of view where the whole purpose of life is for pleasure, partying and enjoyment.

eecc 5y ago
That’s a very reactionary attitude… you’re simply blaming all the “unknown” “new stuff” for everything negative in life. I bet people blamed excessive reading of books, or “a materialistic point of view” during the Romans, the Middle Ages… modernity… hey, who coined the phrase “o tempora! O mores!”
- im3w1l 5y ago
  If we agree that there is a mental health crisis (I'm on the fence on that honestly, but if), then it becomes natural to consider the causes of it. And where else would we find the causes than in the "new stuff"? A useful question may be what "new stuff" is more and less likely to be the cause? Trying to think of something new that is definitely not the cause might be interesting.
MadcapJake 5y ago
> But why is it that the worlds richest country need to keep 50% of its population on drugs? 100% of humans on earth are on drugs. Everything we consume is mind-altering. Sugars are just as addictive as drugs if not moreso. This is not an exaggeration, it's a change in perspective; wrestling back control of our subjective experiences from those who would outlaw what they don't understand (or for more nefarious reasons...). We have to start looking at food especially food consumed for non nutritive purposes in this new lens too. Heck even singing and dancing have been used the world over to illicit an altered state. We also need to stop pining for a perfect self that is drug free. What does one gain by keeping oneself "pure"? It's not even possible but many limit the scope of what they consider mind-altering until the goal post matches their current state. Once you accept that and embrace the idea that our minds are simply faucets of sensory experience that we subconsciously keep at a slow trickle of manageable info, you can start enjoying the turning of the spigot. You can start to appreciate the different subjective experiences that all things provide. As an added bonus, we can all collectively change our tendency to look down upon those who've used and this energy can integrate others and prevent abuse. You don't have to look hard to find stories of reduced or eliminated drug enforcement bettering society. The fact that this research starts by calling it "impairment" tells you that they have come prepared with their rose-tinted glasses. I don't want to belittle their work but I fear they've already aligned themselves with the classic anti-drug ethos.
datavirtue 5y ago
I'm still wondering why the US is the only country with a steady supply of serial killers.

wincy 5y ago

When my wife and I were dealing with our daughter spending 9 months in the NICU at the childrens hospital, any time my wife would cry the nurses would “tattle” on her and the psychiatrist would contact her trying to give her antidepressants. She’d be extremely irritated each time. “My child is very ill and could die, the way I’m reacting is precisely the correct response and I wouldn’t want to blunt it or negate it in any way”. It just felt like we lived in the land of the Lotus Eaters or something.

achenet 5y ago

uh... caffeine? That's mind-altering.