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> What does Iroquois style participatory democracy actually look like? If it’s anything like California’s direct democracy ballot propositions, I wouldn’t be v

> What does Iroquois style participatory democracy actually look like? If it’s anything like California’s direct democracy ballot propositions, I wouldn’t be very enthusiastic. A lot of decisions end up being short sighted “voted X because of a month long ad campaign at the time” things that sound good but lack nuance for the long term repercussions that the citizens themselves face for decades. See prop 13 and ~11% sales tax in some Bay Area counties. (Don’t you want X good thing?! Only 0.5% tax increase [10 times]. Taxes too high? Stop them going up [and distort your real estate market forever]) It ends up being schizophrenic rather than consistent sound public policy, but hey that’s kinda democracy in general.

specialist 5y ago
Direct democracy != participatory democracy. Voting vs deliberation. Someone's really gotta come up with a better term for collaborative decision making. Anarchist, socialist-libertarian, left-libertarian, participatory democracy, citizen juries... all kinda suck.
dsign 5y ago
California's population is 39 million. That in turn gives you thousands of "verticals" e.g housing (which is a big group of things, not just one), education (likewise), social security, and every industry sector. And they are all connected. No matter what form of government California has, things are going to be very complicated and somewhat chaotic. I suppose the alternative would be to live in smaller progressive countries, where there is a better chance of understanding what's going on.
DaedPsyker 5y ago
The article is paywalled so I'm not sure what Graeber says, but I'm pretty happy with the system Ireland has recently being following. Essentially put difficult questions to the public through a citizen's assembly, random 99 citizens who are basically in a jury like system. In this case it's still only a recommendation and politicians have to actually enact it. Is it perfect, no of course not but then perfection is the enemy of the good.
- boogies 5y ago
  > The article is paywalled Only if you choose to load the JS.

specialist 5y ago

Direct democracy != participatory democracy. Voting vs deliberation. Someone's really gotta come up with a better term for collaborative decision making. Anarchist, socialist-libertarian, left-libertarian, participatory democracy, citizen juries... all kinda suck.

dsign 5y ago

California's population is 39 million. That in turn gives you thousands of "verticals" e.g housing (which is a big group of things, not just one), education (likewise), social security, and every industry sector. And they are all connected. No matter what form of government California has, things are going to be very complicated and somewhat chaotic. I suppose the alternative would be to live in smaller progressive countries, where there is a better chance of understanding what's going on.

DaedPsyker 5y ago

The article is paywalled so I'm not sure what Graeber says, but I'm pretty happy with the system Ireland has recently being following. Essentially put difficult questions to the public through a citizen's assembly, random 99 citizens who are basically in a jury like system. In this case it's still only a recommendation and politicians have to actually enact it. Is it perfect, no of course not but then perfection is the enemy of the good.

boogies 5y ago
> The article is paywalled Only if you choose to load the JS.