4 ms·

There was a study I saw recently that talked about how politically and culturally, some people are negatively motivated by shame (loosely on the right), and som

There was a study I saw recently that talked about how politically and culturally, some people are negatively motivated by shame (loosely on the right), and some are not (loosely on the left). It's related to an overall value on "Purity" as a moral virtue. I think what happens is that people like the author are very influenced by shame and therefore project the intent to shame on situations when they FEEL shame. If I do something and someone tells me not to, I don't feel "shame", regardless of whether I agree with the direction or not. That's not the case with some people. I believe it's also associated with narcissism. If you are powerfully negatively impacted by shame you will do everything possible not to feel it including intense denial gaslighting and narcissism.

mlyle 5y ago
The only things that keeps my kids off a playground when there's a sign saying they're not allowed because of COVID, but I'm sure it's safe are: - Shame and social pressures from other parents' judgments about us. - Desire to instill rule-following behavior within my kids.
- deanCommie 5y ago
  No playgrounds have been closed due to covid since the very early days of the pandemic when noone had any idea how infectious or deadly the disease was. At that point, since you didn't know any more about the epidemiology of covid than the experts, I should hope you had another reason to stay away not just arbitrary rule following or social pressure.
  - mlyle 5y ago
    I was exceptionally careful during early COVID. And I thought many restrictions: closing hiking trails, small playgrounds... benches! were exceptionally stupid. Most localities did not go that far. Mine did.
    - deanCommie 5y ago
      You can think that, and you were right, but it was a justifiable perspective in the absence of better data. BTW, if you start tracking the current spread of Omicron, there is strong evidence that Omicron is contageous enough through close proximity even outdoors for short periods of time: Benches, ski chair lifts, playgrounds, hiking trail bottlenecks. The original COVID variants weren't that contagious, but if they were equally threatening and as infectious as Omicron, it would have been a completely correct policy.
      - mlyle 5y ago
        > You can think that, and you were right, but it was a justifiable perspective in the absence of better data. A weakly justifiable perspective that was away from the consensus view at the time and caused harm (probably reduced compliance with the reasonable measures, in addition to all the secondary harms). I had cops threaten to give me a massive ticket for standing in the middle of a field with a telescope by myself. Said cops were 100% of my human contact outside my household in March. This probably wasn't our best enforcement bet. > there is strong evidence that Omicron is contageous enough through close proximity even outdoors for short periods of time I don't buy this. I'm in a test-100%-weekly environment and this happening any more than rarely isn't compatible with our observations. > The original COVID variants weren't that contagious, but if they were equally threatening and as infectious as Omicron, it would have been a completely correct policy. We already had a decent estimate of R0 as 2.0-3.5 even in dense environs, and consensus was already forming around a 2.4 "best guess". We also knew that indoor was the vast majority of that 2.4.
        deanCommie 5y ago
        This is extremely anecdotal, but I have a friend group who are all extremely careful (no socialization; grocery delivery only; other measures that many would consider too extreme) But we're in a mountainous region and it's winter, and we all ski. I know 3 people that got Omicron and the only close proximity to people they had in the time period was chair lift lineup and the chair lift itself.
  - robhunter 5y ago
    This is not accurate. Playgrounds were closed in Ontario - where the author of the piece teaches - until June 2020, and then again in April 2021.

mlyle 5y ago

The only things that keeps my kids off a playground when there's a sign saying they're not allowed because of COVID, but I'm sure it's safe are: - Shame and social pressures from other parents' judgments about us. - Desire to instill rule-following behavior within my kids.

deanCommie 5y ago
No playgrounds have been closed due to covid since the very early days of the pandemic when noone had any idea how infectious or deadly the disease was. At that point, since you didn't know any more about the epidemiology of covid than the experts, I should hope you had another reason to stay away not just arbitrary rule following or social pressure.
- mlyle 5y ago
  I was exceptionally careful during early COVID. And I thought many restrictions: closing hiking trails, small playgrounds... benches! were exceptionally stupid. Most localities did not go that far. Mine did.
  - deanCommie 5y ago
    You can think that, and you were right, but it was a justifiable perspective in the absence of better data. BTW, if you start tracking the current spread of Omicron, there is strong evidence that Omicron is contageous enough through close proximity even outdoors for short periods of time: Benches, ski chair lifts, playgrounds, hiking trail bottlenecks. The original COVID variants weren't that contagious, but if they were equally threatening and as infectious as Omicron, it would have been a completely correct policy.
    - mlyle 5y ago
      > You can think that, and you were right, but it was a justifiable perspective in the absence of better data. A weakly justifiable perspective that was away from the consensus view at the time and caused harm (probably reduced compliance with the reasonable measures, in addition to all the secondary harms). I had cops threaten to give me a massive ticket for standing in the middle of a field with a telescope by myself. Said cops were 100% of my human contact outside my household in March. This probably wasn't our best enforcement bet. > there is strong evidence that Omicron is contageous enough through close proximity even outdoors for short periods of time I don't buy this. I'm in a test-100%-weekly environment and this happening any more than rarely isn't compatible with our observations. > The original COVID variants weren't that contagious, but if they were equally threatening and as infectious as Omicron, it would have been a completely correct policy. We already had a decent estimate of R0 as 2.0-3.5 even in dense environs, and consensus was already forming around a 2.4 "best guess". We also knew that indoor was the vast majority of that 2.4.
      - deanCommie 5y ago
        This is extremely anecdotal, but I have a friend group who are all extremely careful (no socialization; grocery delivery only; other measures that many would consider too extreme) But we're in a mountainous region and it's winter, and we all ski. I know 3 people that got Omicron and the only close proximity to people they had in the time period was chair lift lineup and the chair lift itself.
- robhunter 5y ago
  This is not accurate. Playgrounds were closed in Ontario - where the author of the piece teaches - until June 2020, and then again in April 2021.