4 ms·

Somewhat of a hot take but I think about this every now and then - simply put, Marijuana is a drug that makes people lazy. It tanks personal productivity. So we

Somewhat of a hot take but I think about this every now and then - simply put, Marijuana is a drug that makes people lazy. It tanks personal productivity. So we extrapolate where large swaths of populations in various states where Marijuana is legalized, wouldn’t that have a huge negative impact on the GDP? Literally neutering people’s productivity. It’s not just careers but I’ve seen addicted people (including myself) that have had serious negative impact on life and fulfilling responsibilities. Where am I going wrong with this?

emkoemko 5y ago
didn't they ban psychedelics like LSD for a similar reason people just became way more loving and peaceful so less and less would sing up for the military?
tehjoker 5y ago
If people were less career obsessed, it would vastly reduce the amount of evil in the world tbh. Most large scale evil is done by career obsessed freaks. I heard a talk show host once speculate that one reason weed has been illegal for so long is it would make the various motivational sticks and carrots the ruling class uses with white collar workers less effective in aggregate.
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  That’s crazy man. I’m very career focused and I want to improve the world. I work extremely hard, all day and everyday. I’m evil? Here is some context, I commented elsewhere on my work ethic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29895639 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29895639
  - at_compile_time 5y ago
    >Most large scale evil is done by career obsessed freaks. He didn't say that most career-obsessed freaks are doing large scale evil.
  - tehjoker 5y ago
    It depends on what the incentives are for a career obsessed person. Someone that puts their career above basically everything else will short term optimize at the expense of e.g. public wellbeing to get in the good graces of powerful people. Profits are made off of vile decisions. That's capitalism.
erulabs 5y ago
There ought to be a name for this paradox. Maybe this is out of left field but I've called it the "stimpack & herion" problem. If I was playing a game, and I was the general of an army, and I could tell my marines to "use stimpack", which would make them move faster and be more focused, or "use herion", which would make them move slower and be less focused. A general would never order "use herion", and plenty would order "use stimpack" daily. But the human race is not an army, and you are not a general, or a king. You're looking at the world as an engineer looks at a problem with a set of objects. This is super common on this site - we're programmers, we love re-ordering complex systems. Not only are people far, far, far more complex than inanimate objects, but it might turn out that issuing any orders, or banning any activity has a catastrophically different and more negative effect than you can possibly calculate. Who knows how much of our culture wouldn't exist if people weren't free to drown in their sorrows, or if people spent their lives resenting you for limiting them. I'm not an absolutist, we should ban plenty of substances, but be very careful when considering society as a system to be optimized.
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  Interesting analogy. Yeah, I tend to combine narrow observations and extrapolate them to see what happens on a societal scale. Speaking of Generals, I can imagine China/Russia drumming up pro-Marijuana narrative in US to cripple it from within. When 20% of the population is addicted to Marijuana with memory loss and obesity (munchies! hello), it is a good strategy. I mean, isn't that the reason China is banning video games - so teenagers don't waste time and contribute to the vision China has? I am being a little frivolous but this is literally the kind of stuff I think about.
  - erulabs 5y ago
    In some ways you're not wrong, but this was the mentality of East Germany as well. Why waste time with Jazz and jeans? Much more efficient to be reading didactics or working in a factory. Maybe China is the best anyone has ever been at social engineering and maybe this time they'll get it just right. I'm not so sure.
tayo42 5y ago
California had liberal medical Marijuana for decades and now legalized it and is economically fine.
- droopyEyelids 5y ago
  CALPERS would like a word...
- mandernt 5y ago
elif 5y ago
labor is a requirement for survival. it is demand-induced, not supply-driven. Most can't choose to get high instead of go into work. high people still get the jobs done. most people aren't incapable of realizing their full potential because of their personal mindspace, but because they are confined to a specific economic survival role.
fulafel 5y ago
"There's more to life than increasing its speed"
Ar-Curunir 5y ago
Right, because human existence is entirely to "improve GDP". People have lives beyond making money for their bosses, you know?
robocat 5y ago
> Marijuana is a drug that makes people lazy Some of my acquaintances have the paradoxical effect - they become less lazy. Maybe similar to how amphetamines are used to treat ADHD - which seems perverse.
vincentmarle 5y ago
> Marijuana is a drug that makes people lazy Not necesssarily true. On the right Sativa strain it makes me incredibly productive.

emkoemko 5y ago

didn't they ban psychedelics like LSD for a similar reason people just became way more loving and peaceful so less and less would sing up for the military?

tehjoker 5y ago

If people were less career obsessed, it would vastly reduce the amount of evil in the world tbh. Most large scale evil is done by career obsessed freaks. I heard a talk show host once speculate that one reason weed has been illegal for so long is it would make the various motivational sticks and carrots the ruling class uses with white collar workers less effective in aggregate.

systemvoltage 5y ago
That’s crazy man. I’m very career focused and I want to improve the world. I work extremely hard, all day and everyday. I’m evil? Here is some context, I commented elsewhere on my work ethic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29895639 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29895639
- at_compile_time 5y ago
  >Most large scale evil is done by career obsessed freaks. He didn't say that most career-obsessed freaks are doing large scale evil.
- tehjoker 5y ago
  It depends on what the incentives are for a career obsessed person. Someone that puts their career above basically everything else will short term optimize at the expense of e.g. public wellbeing to get in the good graces of powerful people. Profits are made off of vile decisions. That's capitalism.

erulabs 5y ago

There ought to be a name for this paradox. Maybe this is out of left field but I've called it the "stimpack & herion" problem. If I was playing a game, and I was the general of an army, and I could tell my marines to "use stimpack", which would make them move faster and be more focused, or "use herion", which would make them move slower and be less focused. A general would never order "use herion", and plenty would order "use stimpack" daily. But the human race is not an army, and you are not a general, or a king. You're looking at the world as an engineer looks at a problem with a set of objects. This is super common on this site - we're programmers, we love re-ordering complex systems. Not only are people far, far, far more complex than inanimate objects, but it might turn out that issuing any orders, or banning any activity has a catastrophically different and more negative effect than you can possibly calculate. Who knows how much of our culture wouldn't exist if people weren't free to drown in their sorrows, or if people spent their lives resenting you for limiting them. I'm not an absolutist, we should ban plenty of substances, but be very careful when considering society as a system to be optimized.

systemvoltage 5y ago
Interesting analogy. Yeah, I tend to combine narrow observations and extrapolate them to see what happens on a societal scale. Speaking of Generals, I can imagine China/Russia drumming up pro-Marijuana narrative in US to cripple it from within. When 20% of the population is addicted to Marijuana with memory loss and obesity (munchies! hello), it is a good strategy. I mean, isn't that the reason China is banning video games - so teenagers don't waste time and contribute to the vision China has? I am being a little frivolous but this is literally the kind of stuff I think about.
- erulabs 5y ago
  In some ways you're not wrong, but this was the mentality of East Germany as well. Why waste time with Jazz and jeans? Much more efficient to be reading didactics or working in a factory. Maybe China is the best anyone has ever been at social engineering and maybe this time they'll get it just right. I'm not so sure.

tayo42 5y ago

California had liberal medical Marijuana for decades and now legalized it and is economically fine.

droopyEyelids 5y ago
CALPERS would like a word...
mandernt 5y ago

elif 5y ago

labor is a requirement for survival. it is demand-induced, not supply-driven. Most can't choose to get high instead of go into work. high people still get the jobs done. most people aren't incapable of realizing their full potential because of their personal mindspace, but because they are confined to a specific economic survival role.

fulafel 5y ago

"There's more to life than increasing its speed"

Ar-Curunir 5y ago

Right, because human existence is entirely to "improve GDP". People have lives beyond making money for their bosses, you know?

robocat 5y ago

> Marijuana is a drug that makes people lazy Some of my acquaintances have the paradoxical effect - they become less lazy. Maybe similar to how amphetamines are used to treat ADHD - which seems perverse.

vincentmarle 5y ago

> Marijuana is a drug that makes people lazy Not necesssarily true. On the right Sativa strain it makes me incredibly productive.