5 ms·

It seems virtually all stimulants used as a crutch to counter anxiety, depression, physical pain etc wind up killing off a lot of brain cells. My concern with m

It seems virtually all stimulants used as a crutch to counter anxiety, depression, physical pain etc wind up killing off a lot of brain cells. My concern with modern (incredibly strong) Cannabis/THC is that some regular users seem to struggle with withdrawal if they don't smoke their bowls regularly, run short on weed etc.

jimsimmons 5y ago
Weed withdrawals can be very hard. I had to borderline force feed myself in the past right after quitting because my appetite was dead. You’re insomniac as hell, tired, irritable, and just generally uninterested
- basq 5y ago
  Weed withdrawals can last months for me, severe depression / anhedonia / executive function impairment; duration depending on how much/long I used. I'll bounce back but man does it suck going through the repair process. Nothing is enjoyable, life just feels dull and flat, and it's hard to get anything done.
  - eurasiantiger 5y ago
    That is not withdrawal. That is a preexisting condition.
    - aryamaan 5y ago
      Why do you mean?
      - chanc3e 5y ago
        I think they are implying OP has used weed as a crutch and accidentally obscured a real condition. A bit like using painkillers to avoid having knee surgery. A crutch, not a solution.
  - jimsimmons 5y ago
    The subreddit r/leaves has been really helpful for me in the past
    - can16358p 5y ago
      The punny name of the sub and the reference to r/trees is lovely. Knew r/trees but didn't know r/leaves. Thanks.
      - jimsimmons 5y ago
        You’ll like what r/MarijunanaEnthusiasts
  - YuriNiyazov 5y ago
    I don't know anything about you other than the two sentences that you just wrote up there, but I've known other people who have expressed similar sentiments. After years of struggling with this, they've determined that what's actually going on is that they in fact are depressed and have been for years, and their cannabis use has basically been self-medication of an anti-depressant. They thought it was cannabis withdrawal that was causing these symptoms, but what's actually been going on is that they were stopping treatment that was working (for other reasons, like "I don't want to be a stoner forever" or something) They also reported the "bounce backs" as you do, but those were never permanent. You have no reason to take this advice from someone random on the Internet, but I strongly recommend that you get yourself evaluated for depression or something related.
    - PragmaticPulp 5y ago
      > but what's actually been going on is that they were stopping treatment that was working Hard disagree. Cannabis isn’t actually an anti-depressant in the same way that alcohol and other euphoric drugs aren’t antidepressants. Chronic cannabis use has also been correlated with increased depression scores over time. But that’s beside the point: Cannabis withdrawal and rebound is a very real phenomenon. It’s another myth that you can’t get addicted to THC or that it’s okay because it’s not a “physical” addiction. The withdrawal effects described above are consistent with cannabis withdrawal syndrome and are well documented.
      - Ancapistani 5y ago
        > Chronic cannabis use has also been correlated with increased depression scores over time. As someone diagnosed with depression long before ever partaking in cannabis, this doesn’t surprise me at all. People with depression seek relief, and cannabis can provide that to an extent.
        PragmaticPulp 5y ago
        Yes, it’s a common theme with any drug known to cause short-term euphoria: People will confuse the drug-induced euphoria for anti-depressant effect, but they’re very different.
type0 5y ago
> struggle with withdrawal Anecdata, but for big smokers they'll notice more cognitive decline for a couple of months if they quit abruptly. Alcohol is even worse for teenager cognitive abilities, I don't believe weed is as harmful that it would produce as much neuronal damage.
BatteryMountain 5y ago
And that is why you should only take one or two puffs and not smoke a whole joint like 15 years ago. Also, I'm strongly convinced you should not be consuming it everyday, maybe 3 times a week max and even then that is hectic. People are way to chilled out about cannabis/thc dosages.
- sneak 5y ago
  I think people "should" be consuming whatever they want. We're not free if we're not free to damage or destroy our own damn selves. It's really nobody else's business what goes into one's own body, or how damaging it is or is not to the person ingesting it.
  - fwipsy 5y ago
    Well, maybe, but I think the parent comment had implicitly meant "should... [if you want to avoid cognitive impairment" rather than making any moral judgement on those who don't.
  - bigbluedots 5y ago
    Sure, if it doesn't affect anyone else. Sadly that's not always the case, e.g. if you are prone to psychotic episodes from consuming said thing or just having society paying for your cancer treatment later on
    - sneak 5y ago
      Taking drugs doesn't affect anyone else. Having psychotic episodes doesn't affect anyone else. Doing already-illegal things that violate the rights of others during psychotic episodes, that affects other people. Taking drugs doesn't affect anyone else. Getting cancer doesn't affect anyone else. Receiving cancer treatment doesn't affect anyone else. Using public funds to pay for that cancer treatment, that affects other people. Those things should not be conflated, or treated as identical.
      - olivermarks 5y ago
sneak 5y ago
> It seems virtually all stimulants used as a crutch to counter anxiety, depression, physical pain etc wind up killing off a lot of brain cells. First off, medications used to treat medical disorders aren't a crutch. Knock that off. Second, this simply isn't true. "If it works well, it must be destructive" is the sort of zero-sum folk wisdom nonsense you find in backwaters. Stick to the facts. Any thread about commonly used psychoactive drugs brings out all of these thinly-veiled attempts at moralization over others. :(
kunai 5y ago
Not even alcohol (one of the "dirtiest" drugs as far as physiological effects go) kills brain cells. I wish this myth would die. The issue is in the way they affect your dopaminic and serotonergic regulation and how this can fuck up your brain chemistry, not that they're literally killing off your brain cells. > My concern with modern (incredibly strong) Cannabis/THC is that some regular users seem to struggle with withdrawal if they don't smoke their bowls regularly, run short on weed etc. That said, this is a very legitimate concern I have as well. It doesn't help that a lot of stoners seem like they're in denial over the fact that they gasp have a dependence on this substance like an alcoholic or smoker does.
- meowfly 5y ago
  Alcohol can kill brain cells, but from overactivity of withdrawals. > Scientists postulate that this syndrome [Alcohol Withdrawal] represents the hyperactivity of neural adaptive mechanisms no longer balanced by the inhibitory effects of alcohol > Increased NMDA receptor activity significantly increases the amount of calcium that enters nerve cells. Although calcium is essential for nerve cell function, an excess of this substance within neurons has been reported to produce cell toxicity or death https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh21-2/144.pdf https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh21-2/144.pdf
cthalupa 5y ago
Near daily smoker, these days pretty exclusively of the high potency stuff. I've quit cold turkey multiple times for a variety of reasons, sometimes for 6+ months at a time. I've never noticed any withdrawal symptoms, thankfully. Or cravings on days/weekends/whatever where I don't smoke. It's anecdotal experience, obviously, but it leads me to believe that there's not some near-universal withdrawal process that pot smokers go through that you would see with someone who is going through opiate withdrawal or similar.
- can16358p 5y ago
  I believe it ends up why one was smoking (or using any substance in any way) in the first place. If you're enjoying and it just becomes a (not super healthy-but not my point here) everyday habit, sure, you probably won't have withdrawal symptoms. If you're using something to get away from some reality in life that is too unbearable, and that unbearable thing is still a matter when you want to quit, then it'll be hard. But it's not actually the substance (excluding hard/chemically super addicting class of substances like heroin or sugar) but the fact of facing the problems.

jimsimmons 5y ago

Weed withdrawals can be very hard. I had to borderline force feed myself in the past right after quitting because my appetite was dead. You’re insomniac as hell, tired, irritable, and just generally uninterested

basq 5y ago
Weed withdrawals can last months for me, severe depression / anhedonia / executive function impairment; duration depending on how much/long I used. I'll bounce back but man does it suck going through the repair process. Nothing is enjoyable, life just feels dull and flat, and it's hard to get anything done.
- eurasiantiger 5y ago
  That is not withdrawal. That is a preexisting condition.
  - aryamaan 5y ago
    Why do you mean?
    - chanc3e 5y ago
      I think they are implying OP has used weed as a crutch and accidentally obscured a real condition. A bit like using painkillers to avoid having knee surgery. A crutch, not a solution.
- jimsimmons 5y ago
  The subreddit r/leaves has been really helpful for me in the past
  - can16358p 5y ago
    The punny name of the sub and the reference to r/trees is lovely. Knew r/trees but didn't know r/leaves. Thanks.
    - jimsimmons 5y ago
      You’ll like what r/MarijunanaEnthusiasts
- YuriNiyazov 5y ago
  I don't know anything about you other than the two sentences that you just wrote up there, but I've known other people who have expressed similar sentiments. After years of struggling with this, they've determined that what's actually going on is that they in fact are depressed and have been for years, and their cannabis use has basically been self-medication of an anti-depressant. They thought it was cannabis withdrawal that was causing these symptoms, but what's actually been going on is that they were stopping treatment that was working (for other reasons, like "I don't want to be a stoner forever" or something) They also reported the "bounce backs" as you do, but those were never permanent. You have no reason to take this advice from someone random on the Internet, but I strongly recommend that you get yourself evaluated for depression or something related.
  - PragmaticPulp 5y ago
    > but what's actually been going on is that they were stopping treatment that was working Hard disagree. Cannabis isn’t actually an anti-depressant in the same way that alcohol and other euphoric drugs aren’t antidepressants. Chronic cannabis use has also been correlated with increased depression scores over time. But that’s beside the point: Cannabis withdrawal and rebound is a very real phenomenon. It’s another myth that you can’t get addicted to THC or that it’s okay because it’s not a “physical” addiction. The withdrawal effects described above are consistent with cannabis withdrawal syndrome and are well documented.
    - Ancapistani 5y ago
      > Chronic cannabis use has also been correlated with increased depression scores over time. As someone diagnosed with depression long before ever partaking in cannabis, this doesn’t surprise me at all. People with depression seek relief, and cannabis can provide that to an extent.
      - PragmaticPulp 5y ago
        Yes, it’s a common theme with any drug known to cause short-term euphoria: People will confuse the drug-induced euphoria for anti-depressant effect, but they’re very different.

type0 5y ago

> struggle with withdrawal Anecdata, but for big smokers they'll notice more cognitive decline for a couple of months if they quit abruptly. Alcohol is even worse for teenager cognitive abilities, I don't believe weed is as harmful that it would produce as much neuronal damage.

BatteryMountain 5y ago

And that is why you should only take one or two puffs and not smoke a whole joint like 15 years ago. Also, I'm strongly convinced you should not be consuming it everyday, maybe 3 times a week max and even then that is hectic. People are way to chilled out about cannabis/thc dosages.

sneak 5y ago
I think people "should" be consuming whatever they want. We're not free if we're not free to damage or destroy our own damn selves. It's really nobody else's business what goes into one's own body, or how damaging it is or is not to the person ingesting it.
- fwipsy 5y ago
  Well, maybe, but I think the parent comment had implicitly meant "should... [if you want to avoid cognitive impairment" rather than making any moral judgement on those who don't.
- bigbluedots 5y ago
  Sure, if it doesn't affect anyone else. Sadly that's not always the case, e.g. if you are prone to psychotic episodes from consuming said thing or just having society paying for your cancer treatment later on
  - sneak 5y ago
    Taking drugs doesn't affect anyone else. Having psychotic episodes doesn't affect anyone else. Doing already-illegal things that violate the rights of others during psychotic episodes, that affects other people. Taking drugs doesn't affect anyone else. Getting cancer doesn't affect anyone else. Receiving cancer treatment doesn't affect anyone else. Using public funds to pay for that cancer treatment, that affects other people. Those things should not be conflated, or treated as identical.
    - olivermarks 5y ago

sneak 5y ago

> It seems virtually all stimulants used as a crutch to counter anxiety, depression, physical pain etc wind up killing off a lot of brain cells. First off, medications used to treat medical disorders aren't a crutch. Knock that off. Second, this simply isn't true. "If it works well, it must be destructive" is the sort of zero-sum folk wisdom nonsense you find in backwaters. Stick to the facts. Any thread about commonly used psychoactive drugs brings out all of these thinly-veiled attempts at moralization over others. :(

kunai 5y ago

Not even alcohol (one of the "dirtiest" drugs as far as physiological effects go) kills brain cells. I wish this myth would die. The issue is in the way they affect your dopaminic and serotonergic regulation and how this can fuck up your brain chemistry, not that they're literally killing off your brain cells. > My concern with modern (incredibly strong) Cannabis/THC is that some regular users seem to struggle with withdrawal if they don't smoke their bowls regularly, run short on weed etc. That said, this is a very legitimate concern I have as well. It doesn't help that a lot of stoners seem like they're in denial over the fact that they gasp have a dependence on this substance like an alcoholic or smoker does.

meowfly 5y ago
Alcohol can kill brain cells, but from overactivity of withdrawals. > Scientists postulate that this syndrome [Alcohol Withdrawal] represents the hyperactivity of neural adaptive mechanisms no longer balanced by the inhibitory effects of alcohol > Increased NMDA receptor activity significantly increases the amount of calcium that enters nerve cells. Although calcium is essential for nerve cell function, an excess of this substance within neurons has been reported to produce cell toxicity or death https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh21-2/144.pdf https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh21-2/144.pdf

cthalupa 5y ago

Near daily smoker, these days pretty exclusively of the high potency stuff. I've quit cold turkey multiple times for a variety of reasons, sometimes for 6+ months at a time. I've never noticed any withdrawal symptoms, thankfully. Or cravings on days/weekends/whatever where I don't smoke. It's anecdotal experience, obviously, but it leads me to believe that there's not some near-universal withdrawal process that pot smokers go through that you would see with someone who is going through opiate withdrawal or similar.

can16358p 5y ago
I believe it ends up why one was smoking (or using any substance in any way) in the first place. If you're enjoying and it just becomes a (not super healthy-but not my point here) everyday habit, sure, you probably won't have withdrawal symptoms. If you're using something to get away from some reality in life that is too unbearable, and that unbearable thing is still a matter when you want to quit, then it'll be hard. But it's not actually the substance (excluding hard/chemically super addicting class of substances like heroin or sugar) but the fact of facing the problems.