4 ms·

> essentially none of the designers use Windows This is ridiculous.

Spivak 5y ago
I mean why would someone who cares anything at all about how software looks even glance at Windows if they had any choice? Imagine taking someone who is so passionate about UX that they made a career out of it, making them use their worst nightmare as their daily driver, and then giving them zero institutional power to fix any of it because of the n-dev years problem. Windows, while extremely powerful and stable because of the commitment to not breaking things, is basically unfixable UI wise unless “forward” means going backward. There’s too much to rewrite and not enough value gained by it. So every iteration will be piling on even more inconsistencies and shifting around the “easy stuff” because that’s all you can do. You just have to embrace that Windows is 50 years of UX trends all coexisting.
- ishtanbul 5y ago
  As an office power user i like the UI of windows 10. 11 sucks tho
  - BizarroLand 5y ago
    Going from 7 to 10 was like being a juggler who was used to juggling 3 apples suddenly having to juggle oranges. A little different but basically the same. Going from 10 to 11 is like being a juggler going from juggling oranges to being punched in the face for the entertainment of 10 year old boys. Have you tried using an app other than photos to view images? How about being forced to manually set every single extensions default opener? Oh, did you expect to be able to right click on the taskbar? Screw you! Have a kick to the groin instead! That's what you get for thinking that this version of windows would operate anything like any other version of windows, you poor, pathetic worthless mineable data source! Now shut up and answer this survey about how much you like Windows 11!
- aahortwwy 5y ago
  Good design is the intersection of form and function. Imagine taking a role on the Windows Desktop Experience Team while caring so little about how the operating system functions that you don't even bother to use it as your main workstation. This is the company where the phrase "eating your own dog food" originated, by the way.
- simion314 5y ago
  >Imagine taking someone who is so passionate about UX that they made a career out of it, making them use their worst nightmare as their daily driver, and then giving them zero institutional power to fix any of it because of the n-dev years problem. 1 Those people are paid, as a dev I am paid to use JS and PHP , I am not crying here because poor me I can't use my favorite language Prolog or Lisp so why a designer should cry if he does not work on his preferred shit. They can use Linux or OSX at home. 2 this designers call themselves UX people. This means they don't work with images of GUIs , they should in fact use the product as an user would use. Ex: you are a UX dev for the Word product but you always use Word with a document of 1 page length, then you would never feel the pains your users that have documents of 50+ , 100+ pages feel. As a dev and UX designers you should use the product you create. 3 If you are a designer in the sense you create logos and icons then probably is fine you don't use the product, though if you are a web designer and really love fucking with fonts and fonts color PLEASE borrow a regular laptop from a friend and check your website in it, your cool fonts might look different on a different machine and maybe you also will be reminded that not everyone has high definition laptop screens.
  - sideshowb 5y ago
    2. This reminds me, while we're documenting ms bugs: does anyone else's Word get insanely slow once there are around 40 equations in a doc? Like taking over a minute to copy from an equation?
  - GlennS 5y ago
    I mean I don't know about you, but I do like to whinge a bit if I have to use PHP or JavaScript or some framework of misery for a job. Pretty sure I'm not the only one. I still do the job though.
- zakius 5y ago
  yes, anyone who cares about looks would pick win10 pre-neon over mac, they would pick win8 over mac, they would pick win2000 over mac
- CRConrad 5y ago
  > I mean why would someone who cares anything at all about how software looks even glance at Windows if they had any choice? If they're building software for Windows??? Duh, WTF else are they supposed to look at? "Hey, my mockups of our Windows-only software look great on my Mac, so what's the problem?" is about the stupidest thing that designer could possibly say. And if what they're designing is not just software for Windows, but Windows itself, it's ten times worse. Which is what's under discussion here. > Imagine taking someone who is so passionate about UX that they made a career out of it, making them use their worst nightmare as their daily driver, and then giving them zero institutional power to fix any of it because of the n-dev years problem. Yeah, that might be a fascinating hypothetical to discuss some other time, but this discussion is about the problem of designers "so passionate about UX" that they insist on making stuff look "good" at the cost of usability and consistency being given all the institutional power to break it despite the n-user-years problems this causes. The exact opposite of what you are imagining.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    Oh, and returning to this bit: >> Imagine taking someone who is so passionate about UX that they made a career out of it, making them use their worst nightmare as their daily driver, and then giving them zero institutional power to fix any of it because of the n-dev years problem. And if the UI they're designing sucks so humongously that these poor "passionate about U"I designer snowflakes can't even deign to use it... Then whose fault is that? Whom can they blame for this, if not -- the designers of the UI they're designing, i.e. themselves? Assholes, that's what they are. (And what kind of person defends assholes?) Of fucking course it sucks, when the assholes who designed it don't even have to use it, so they'd get to suffer if it sucks. They're getting away with inflicting the suffering only on others, while they themselves avoid it. No wonder they don't give a shit! This is precisely what "eating your own dogfood" (aka "dogfooding") is all about. Look it up.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  > I mean why would someone who cares anything at all about how software looks even glance at Windows if they had any choice? Ever saw airplane controls? They are ugly, and UX people have to design them too, to enable pilots to act in emergencies, to highlighr issues before emergency even happens, etc. You are conflating visual design and UX, which is common. The former draw pretty pictures and they can fuck off to MacOS, nobody cares. UX is about structure: where should we put the delete button? How many clicks does it take to access your files?

I mean why would someone who cares anything at all about how software looks even glance at Windows if they had any choice? Imagine taking someone who is so passionate about UX that they made a career out of it, making them use their worst nightmare as their daily driver, and then giving them zero institutional power to fix any of it because of the n-dev years problem. Windows, while extremely powerful and stable because of the commitment to not breaking things, is basically unfixable UI wise unless “forward” means going backward. There’s too much to rewrite and not enough value gained by it. So every iteration will be piling on even more inconsistencies and shifting around the “easy stuff” because that’s all you can do. You just have to embrace that Windows is 50 years of UX trends all coexisting.

ishtanbul 5y ago
As an office power user i like the UI of windows 10. 11 sucks tho
- BizarroLand 5y ago
  Going from 7 to 10 was like being a juggler who was used to juggling 3 apples suddenly having to juggle oranges. A little different but basically the same. Going from 10 to 11 is like being a juggler going from juggling oranges to being punched in the face for the entertainment of 10 year old boys. Have you tried using an app other than photos to view images? How about being forced to manually set every single extensions default opener? Oh, did you expect to be able to right click on the taskbar? Screw you! Have a kick to the groin instead! That's what you get for thinking that this version of windows would operate anything like any other version of windows, you poor, pathetic worthless mineable data source! Now shut up and answer this survey about how much you like Windows 11!
aahortwwy 5y ago
Good design is the intersection of form and function. Imagine taking a role on the Windows Desktop Experience Team while caring so little about how the operating system functions that you don't even bother to use it as your main workstation. This is the company where the phrase "eating your own dog food" originated, by the way.
simion314 5y ago
>Imagine taking someone who is so passionate about UX that they made a career out of it, making them use their worst nightmare as their daily driver, and then giving them zero institutional power to fix any of it because of the n-dev years problem. 1 Those people are paid, as a dev I am paid to use JS and PHP , I am not crying here because poor me I can't use my favorite language Prolog or Lisp so why a designer should cry if he does not work on his preferred shit. They can use Linux or OSX at home. 2 this designers call themselves UX people. This means they don't work with images of GUIs , they should in fact use the product as an user would use. Ex: you are a UX dev for the Word product but you always use Word with a document of 1 page length, then you would never feel the pains your users that have documents of 50+ , 100+ pages feel. As a dev and UX designers you should use the product you create. 3 If you are a designer in the sense you create logos and icons then probably is fine you don't use the product, though if you are a web designer and really love fucking with fonts and fonts color PLEASE borrow a regular laptop from a friend and check your website in it, your cool fonts might look different on a different machine and maybe you also will be reminded that not everyone has high definition laptop screens.
- sideshowb 5y ago
  2. This reminds me, while we're documenting ms bugs: does anyone else's Word get insanely slow once there are around 40 equations in a doc? Like taking over a minute to copy from an equation?
- GlennS 5y ago
  I mean I don't know about you, but I do like to whinge a bit if I have to use PHP or JavaScript or some framework of misery for a job. Pretty sure I'm not the only one. I still do the job though.
zakius 5y ago
yes, anyone who cares about looks would pick win10 pre-neon over mac, they would pick win8 over mac, they would pick win2000 over mac
CRConrad 5y ago
> I mean why would someone who cares anything at all about how software looks even glance at Windows if they had any choice? If they're building software for Windows??? Duh, WTF else are they supposed to look at? "Hey, my mockups of our Windows-only software look great on my Mac, so what's the problem?" is about the stupidest thing that designer could possibly say. And if what they're designing is not just software for Windows, but Windows itself, it's ten times worse. Which is what's under discussion here. > Imagine taking someone who is so passionate about UX that they made a career out of it, making them use their worst nightmare as their daily driver, and then giving them zero institutional power to fix any of it because of the n-dev years problem. Yeah, that might be a fascinating hypothetical to discuss some other time, but this discussion is about the problem of designers "so passionate about UX" that they insist on making stuff look "good" at the cost of usability and consistency being given all the institutional power to break it despite the n-user-years problems this causes. The exact opposite of what you are imagining.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  Oh, and returning to this bit: >> Imagine taking someone who is so passionate about UX that they made a career out of it, making them use their worst nightmare as their daily driver, and then giving them zero institutional power to fix any of it because of the n-dev years problem. And if the UI they're designing sucks so humongously that these poor "passionate about U"I designer snowflakes can't even deign to use it... Then whose fault is that? Whom can they blame for this, if not -- the designers of the UI they're designing, i.e. themselves? Assholes, that's what they are. (And what kind of person defends assholes?) Of fucking course it sucks, when the assholes who designed it don't even have to use it, so they'd get to suffer if it sucks. They're getting away with inflicting the suffering only on others, while they themselves avoid it. No wonder they don't give a shit! This is precisely what "eating your own dogfood" (aka "dogfooding") is all about. Look it up.
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
> I mean why would someone who cares anything at all about how software looks even glance at Windows if they had any choice? Ever saw airplane controls? They are ugly, and UX people have to design them too, to enable pilots to act in emergencies, to highlighr issues before emergency even happens, etc. You are conflating visual design and UX, which is common. The former draw pretty pictures and they can fuck off to MacOS, nobody cares. UX is about structure: where should we put the delete button? How many clicks does it take to access your files?