7 ms·

"Last year, venture capitalists backed about 460 blockchain projects, spending nearly $12.75 billion". And not one has produced anything of use to real people.

"Last year, venture capitalists backed about 460 blockchain projects, spending nearly $12.75 billion". And not one has produced anything of use to real people. That's a lot of billions for basically no return.

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stanfordkid 5y ago
You want a certain portion of capital going to waste... if it doesn't you're not taking big enough risks. A well functioning system will have failures.
- fnord77 5y ago
  but still some things will never amount to anything. Capital expended on, say perpetual motion machines is not a risk, it is pure waste
- klyrs 5y ago
  This nearly $13B could fund hundreds of thousands of failed restaurants. The cool thing about a failed restaurant is that while it's operating, people have jobs and other people get fed. Failed restaurants have positive externalities. Other failed business ventures at least give people jobs. But this? It's just gambling.
brian_cloutier 5y ago
For nearly everybody who is not European trying to send money to other Europeans, cryptocurrencies are the easiest way to make international payments. For example, I have at various times sent money from the US to Turkey, with bitcoin I was able to send the money with very low fees and it arrived in under an hour. To the best of my knowledge crypto is the cheapest and fastest way to send my friend money, though as transaction fees fluctuate we have occasionally changed which currency we use. So, "not one has produced anything of use to real people" should be amended to "not one has produced anything I personally consider useful". How can you be so sure that you are correct, and that the people willing to invest $12.75B are incorrect?
- twelve40 5y ago
  > people willing to invest $12.75B are incorrect Correct about what? I'm sure many people, memecoin flippers and VCs included, will make a lot of money for themselves, just like a lot of people made money on ICOs (remember that one?) Since a VC's job is to make money, many of them will be "correct". But if the only actual useful thing that came out of this decade-long hype fest is a lower-fee version of Transferwise... then it's just not very convincing.
  - brian_cloutier 5y ago
    That is not the only useful thing which which has come out of cryptocurrencies. There is also Filecoin, which provides a similar service to S3 but at a wildly cheaper price point. There are also more examples of actually useful things you can do today. However, when the OP says something like there isn't a single use it doesn't take a basket of use-cases to refute them, it just takes one example. Do you really think that $12.75B is going into pointless NFTs?
ipnon 5y ago
I made enough money to quit my job over the summer, and moved my 0.03% APY savings account over to an 12% APY yield farm, so you'll have to increment "not one" a couple of times.
- lern_too_spel 5y ago
  There have been 12% APY ponzi schemes since time immemorial, and they have been less wasteful of resources than the one you invested in.
  - ipnon 5y ago
    In the spirit of friendly conversation: Something about a 0.03% repo rate during a year of 7% inflation seems like a Ponzi scheme to me! I am genuinely thankful for the opportunities crypto provides myself and others. Our financial system is in many ways rigged against the little guys. Now there's a chance to turn the tables.
    - lern_too_spel 5y ago
      My point was that there are plenty of other people running ponzi schemes without crypto waste. You might as well use those.
  - brian_cloutier 5y ago
    By what definition is crypto a ponzi scheme?
    - lern_too_spel 5y ago
      By the definition that there is no growth in value of the investment, only new "investors" paying the returns for the people withdrawing.
      - brian_cloutier 5y ago
        Is gold a ponzi scheme? 1. Gold bars are just collections of atoms and always stay exactly how they are, the material never changes, so the intrinsic value of a gold bar never changes. 2. It seems that the only way to make money while trading gold is to take it from other people. The only way to win a return is if a bunch of people suddenly want gold and offer to pay you for yours. Gold, and other commodities, seem to fit your definition.

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stanfordkid 5y ago

You want a certain portion of capital going to waste... if it doesn't you're not taking big enough risks. A well functioning system will have failures.

fnord77 5y ago
but still some things will never amount to anything. Capital expended on, say perpetual motion machines is not a risk, it is pure waste
klyrs 5y ago
This nearly $13B could fund hundreds of thousands of failed restaurants. The cool thing about a failed restaurant is that while it's operating, people have jobs and other people get fed. Failed restaurants have positive externalities. Other failed business ventures at least give people jobs. But this? It's just gambling.

brian_cloutier 5y ago

For nearly everybody who is not European trying to send money to other Europeans, cryptocurrencies are the easiest way to make international payments. For example, I have at various times sent money from the US to Turkey, with bitcoin I was able to send the money with very low fees and it arrived in under an hour. To the best of my knowledge crypto is the cheapest and fastest way to send my friend money, though as transaction fees fluctuate we have occasionally changed which currency we use. So, "not one has produced anything of use to real people" should be amended to "not one has produced anything I personally consider useful". How can you be so sure that you are correct, and that the people willing to invest $12.75B are incorrect?

twelve40 5y ago
> people willing to invest $12.75B are incorrect Correct about what? I'm sure many people, memecoin flippers and VCs included, will make a lot of money for themselves, just like a lot of people made money on ICOs (remember that one?) Since a VC's job is to make money, many of them will be "correct". But if the only actual useful thing that came out of this decade-long hype fest is a lower-fee version of Transferwise... then it's just not very convincing.
- brian_cloutier 5y ago
  That is not the only useful thing which which has come out of cryptocurrencies. There is also Filecoin, which provides a similar service to S3 but at a wildly cheaper price point. There are also more examples of actually useful things you can do today. However, when the OP says something like there isn't a single use it doesn't take a basket of use-cases to refute them, it just takes one example. Do you really think that $12.75B is going into pointless NFTs?

ipnon 5y ago

I made enough money to quit my job over the summer, and moved my 0.03% APY savings account over to an 12% APY yield farm, so you'll have to increment "not one" a couple of times.

lern_too_spel 5y ago
There have been 12% APY ponzi schemes since time immemorial, and they have been less wasteful of resources than the one you invested in.
- ipnon 5y ago
  In the spirit of friendly conversation: Something about a 0.03% repo rate during a year of 7% inflation seems like a Ponzi scheme to me! I am genuinely thankful for the opportunities crypto provides myself and others. Our financial system is in many ways rigged against the little guys. Now there's a chance to turn the tables.
  - lern_too_spel 5y ago
    My point was that there are plenty of other people running ponzi schemes without crypto waste. You might as well use those.
- brian_cloutier 5y ago
  By what definition is crypto a ponzi scheme?
  - lern_too_spel 5y ago
    By the definition that there is no growth in value of the investment, only new "investors" paying the returns for the people withdrawing.
    - brian_cloutier 5y ago
      Is gold a ponzi scheme? 1. Gold bars are just collections of atoms and always stay exactly how they are, the material never changes, so the intrinsic value of a gold bar never changes. 2. It seems that the only way to make money while trading gold is to take it from other people. The only way to win a return is if a bunch of people suddenly want gold and offer to pay you for yours. Gold, and other commodities, seem to fit your definition.