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I get why remote work is popular, and for some tasks/jobs I think it can work well. However, I think in-person interaction is critical for breaking new ground,

I get why remote work is popular, and for some tasks/jobs I think it can work well. However, I think in-person interaction is critical for breaking new ground, starting new initiatives, etc. So far, nothing replaces being in the same room hashing out ideas on the whiteboard, etc.

Salgat 5y ago
I don't get this because we have some of the most innovative and valuable projects (such as Linux) that have achieved their success through remote work. The problem isn't remote, the problem is corporate culture not adapting to it.
baggygenes 5y ago
agreed, why I also think that regular (monthly) in-person get-together sessions are incredibly valuable. Make the time together special, on everyone's calendar, and really set the time aside for thinking as a group. Doesn't need to be done every day or even every week.
999900000999 5y ago
Why ? Working remote , never being late to a meeting , never having to commute, vastly outweighs all that. I have an odd feeling many people like in person work so they can socialize. We have bars and concerts for that. We somehow went from COVID will kill us all if we dare step into an office to shut up and get back to work. Stop wasting money on office space. Let people live wherever ( assuming your in the same country for tax reasons). I love the sheer level of freedom I have. If I get sick of the city, I can work from a small town in Alaska, Alabama, etc. Vs being told to commute for 3 hours a day
- PraetorianGourd 5y ago
  I think it’s going to be “I can…” versus “I am” or “I do”. Lots of people will _think_ “I’ll just up and move anywhere!” but very few actually will. And in my experience, having the freedom but electing not to exercise it is more depressing then not having the option. Sometimes the dream is better than the reality
  - 999900000999 5y ago
    Well the inverse of that is you have the freedom to not move when you get a job in another state. I've already done this.
- jollybean 5y ago
  I think the inability to see how they rebound off of others in their thinking and communication is a problem. Mentorship, communications, even just basic professional behaviour. All of this is learned, and you're learning all the time. But ideas even, discussions, blackboards ... they don't happen over Zoom, especially without an appointment. We don't get enough 'alone time' at the office, but 'group time' is incredibly important for all aspects of our work. For some kinds of things, like 'going deep' for a few days, being alone is a godsend but it comes with a heavy price. Also - just being around other professionals, putting on a pair of clothes designed for professional appearance, thinking about what you are going to say, i.e. 'being a professional' makes us almost all better people. It has it's drawbacks, but mostly it's good. I think we're going to have to find the right, blended approach. That said, what remote work does do is enable a kind of role-fitting that was never possible before. We have yet to contemplate the economic advantage of that - but that one comes along with a massive White Elephant: that everyone reading this will be displaced by someone working in a 'poor country' who is super sharp and who will work for 1/2 the salary. Soft. Devs. think they are important until management can hire fully offshore for 1/3 the cost. The arguments that a lot of people make against offshore apply almost as much to remote.
  - hi_im_miles 5y ago
    My experience with remote work has been the opposite of this. My team is in a call for the day, and most of my time is spent collaborating with my coworkers. I find this experience to be far superior actually, as we can do things like: use our own drawing tablets at the same time, screenshare rather than look over shoulders, adjust volume for quiet speakers (huge for me), turn on closed captioning, mute chitchat when trying to focus, etc etc.
- rowanajmarshall 5y ago
  > I have an odd feeling many people like in person work so they can socialize. We have bars and concerts for that. The splitting of society like this is awful for humans, we really aren't built for it. There are ways of addressing this and still keeping remote work, but removing socialisation for 8 hours a day is not it.
  - 999900000999 5y ago
    Then you can go get a WeWork or something. I personally don't need to be around people all day. Your not entirely wrong, Tribe is a good book that addresses modern social isolation.
  - scsilver 5y ago
    Coffee shops, health clubs, parks….. would like to see the daytime opportunities for socialization and entertainment to rise.
jonwithoutanh 5y ago
Why not hang out in a video call and hash ideas out on your individual whiteboards? I've done it this way for over a decade and it's been fine for "breaking new ground". The most productive person I've ever worked with, who was responsible for the biggest initiatives at a previous company worked solo in Hong Kong while the rest of the team was in North America. Never presented an issue. He came up with many innovative ideas in NLP and other ML techniques (not my area). All of his collaboration was over video calls, was never an issue. Perhaps you are not being inclusive of your remote workers in your brainstorming sessions?
KerrAvon 5y ago
Agreed it’s impossible to hash out new ideas over videoconferencing. It’s so slow and grainy! Who can actually break new ground without other people nattering in the same room? Not everyone has even a 56k modem! Sharing germs and viruses is an absolute requirement. And if I can’t have a chance meeting with you at a wate rcooler to discuss what happened on Jay Leno last night, how can I can possibly start new initiatives? I mean, I get why in-office work is unpopular, but for some tasks/jobs I think it can work well. So far, if you need to set up furniture or infect with other humans with your viruses and assorted bacteria and sometimes exchanging feces on our hands because we don’t wash them properly, nothing replaces being in the same room.
- truetraveller 5y ago
  You had me in the first sentence; I actually nodded!
avidphantasm 5y ago
I also forgot to mention serendipity, which in my experience is critical to innovation. For me, working remotely drastically reduces serendipitous interactions. And I say this as an introvert who loves to be left alone for long stretches to do focused work. (note, my experience is mostly in academia, but with 4 years of commercial experience out of 24 years total.)

Salgat 5y ago

I don't get this because we have some of the most innovative and valuable projects (such as Linux) that have achieved their success through remote work. The problem isn't remote, the problem is corporate culture not adapting to it.

baggygenes 5y ago

agreed, why I also think that regular (monthly) in-person get-together sessions are incredibly valuable. Make the time together special, on everyone's calendar, and really set the time aside for thinking as a group. Doesn't need to be done every day or even every week.

999900000999 5y ago

Why ? Working remote , never being late to a meeting , never having to commute, vastly outweighs all that. I have an odd feeling many people like in person work so they can socialize. We have bars and concerts for that. We somehow went from COVID will kill us all if we dare step into an office to shut up and get back to work. Stop wasting money on office space. Let people live wherever ( assuming your in the same country for tax reasons). I love the sheer level of freedom I have. If I get sick of the city, I can work from a small town in Alaska, Alabama, etc. Vs being told to commute for 3 hours a day

PraetorianGourd 5y ago
I think it’s going to be “I can…” versus “I am” or “I do”. Lots of people will _think_ “I’ll just up and move anywhere!” but very few actually will. And in my experience, having the freedom but electing not to exercise it is more depressing then not having the option. Sometimes the dream is better than the reality
- 999900000999 5y ago
  Well the inverse of that is you have the freedom to not move when you get a job in another state. I've already done this.
jollybean 5y ago
I think the inability to see how they rebound off of others in their thinking and communication is a problem. Mentorship, communications, even just basic professional behaviour. All of this is learned, and you're learning all the time. But ideas even, discussions, blackboards ... they don't happen over Zoom, especially without an appointment. We don't get enough 'alone time' at the office, but 'group time' is incredibly important for all aspects of our work. For some kinds of things, like 'going deep' for a few days, being alone is a godsend but it comes with a heavy price. Also - just being around other professionals, putting on a pair of clothes designed for professional appearance, thinking about what you are going to say, i.e. 'being a professional' makes us almost all better people. It has it's drawbacks, but mostly it's good. I think we're going to have to find the right, blended approach. That said, what remote work does do is enable a kind of role-fitting that was never possible before. We have yet to contemplate the economic advantage of that - but that one comes along with a massive White Elephant: that everyone reading this will be displaced by someone working in a 'poor country' who is super sharp and who will work for 1/2 the salary. Soft. Devs. think they are important until management can hire fully offshore for 1/3 the cost. The arguments that a lot of people make against offshore apply almost as much to remote.
- hi_im_miles 5y ago
  My experience with remote work has been the opposite of this. My team is in a call for the day, and most of my time is spent collaborating with my coworkers. I find this experience to be far superior actually, as we can do things like: use our own drawing tablets at the same time, screenshare rather than look over shoulders, adjust volume for quiet speakers (huge for me), turn on closed captioning, mute chitchat when trying to focus, etc etc.
rowanajmarshall 5y ago
> I have an odd feeling many people like in person work so they can socialize. We have bars and concerts for that. The splitting of society like this is awful for humans, we really aren't built for it. There are ways of addressing this and still keeping remote work, but removing socialisation for 8 hours a day is not it.
- 999900000999 5y ago
  Then you can go get a WeWork or something. I personally don't need to be around people all day. Your not entirely wrong, Tribe is a good book that addresses modern social isolation.
- scsilver 5y ago
  Coffee shops, health clubs, parks….. would like to see the daytime opportunities for socialization and entertainment to rise.

jonwithoutanh 5y ago

Why not hang out in a video call and hash ideas out on your individual whiteboards? I've done it this way for over a decade and it's been fine for "breaking new ground". The most productive person I've ever worked with, who was responsible for the biggest initiatives at a previous company worked solo in Hong Kong while the rest of the team was in North America. Never presented an issue. He came up with many innovative ideas in NLP and other ML techniques (not my area). All of his collaboration was over video calls, was never an issue. Perhaps you are not being inclusive of your remote workers in your brainstorming sessions?

KerrAvon 5y ago

Agreed it’s impossible to hash out new ideas over videoconferencing. It’s so slow and grainy! Who can actually break new ground without other people nattering in the same room? Not everyone has even a 56k modem! Sharing germs and viruses is an absolute requirement. And if I can’t have a chance meeting with you at a wate rcooler to discuss what happened on Jay Leno last night, how can I can possibly start new initiatives? I mean, I get why in-office work is unpopular, but for some tasks/jobs I think it can work well. So far, if you need to set up furniture or infect with other humans with your viruses and assorted bacteria and sometimes exchanging feces on our hands because we don’t wash them properly, nothing replaces being in the same room.

truetraveller 5y ago
You had me in the first sentence; I actually nodded!

avidphantasm 5y ago

I also forgot to mention serendipity, which in my experience is critical to innovation. For me, working remotely drastically reduces serendipitous interactions. And I say this as an introvert who loves to be left alone for long stretches to do focused work. (note, my experience is mostly in academia, but with 4 years of commercial experience out of 24 years total.)