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You are making life choices without much thinking, by your own admission. You're allowed to do that. Some of us choose more thoughtful paths and recognize 2-pa

You are making life choices without much thinking, by your own admission. You're allowed to do that. Some of us choose more thoughtful paths and recognize 2-party systems as inherently abusive because they're out of alignment with reality, which is inherently nonbinary.

ctoth 5y ago
You are making life choices without much consideration of political and electoral reality, by your own admission. You're allowed to do that. Some of us choose more pragmatic paths and recognize that our individual dislike for 2-party systems does ~nothing to change the fact that we actually physically currently live in a 2-party system which is inherently binary. If you want to win elections, build coalitions. If you want to rant about how abusive the current system is, you can do that, but don't expect to actually win anything.
- crawfordcomeaux 5y ago
  I don't allow existing systems to limit my thinking like that. Optimizing a part or feature of a system that doesn't need to exist is an element of dumb design. Pragmatism demands exploring ideas beyond the existing systems, otherwise we'll remain trapped in them.
  - kmonsen 5y ago
    The system can only be changed by the current political parties, so at the very least you need to build a coalition to change the system.
    - crawfordcomeaux 5y ago
      That's definitely disempowerment talking. There's nothing stopping anyone from creating an alternative government that meets more needs and is more fun to interact with. If it accomplishes that and people are willing to implement it and it doesn't violate laws by existing, then how does any preexisting system prevent people from switching over to it, aside from locking up people who use the new system? Disruption isn't just for companies.
      - kmonsen 5y ago
        I don't even understand what you are talking about. Will this new government control the military/police/taxation? If not then it is just another burden for me. And the old government will still be around so you achieved nothing. I am all for disruption but I really don't know what your plan is. And please understand that disruption is not always good for everyone. A lot of people depend on our current government to survive.
        crawfordcomeaux 5y ago
        I'm trying to point out the system can be changed from the outside. That's it. I'm not trying to tell you how to do it. I'm simply pointing out it's possible.
- ctoth 5y ago
  Thinking on this more this conversation reminds me of the new programmer who joins the team and then starts advocating we rewrite everything in Rust, when we need to ship in two weeks. Yes, there might be a perfect system. No, we do not live in or possess this perfect system. Any reform, any positive change, needs to be based on where we actually are. Saying this is how things should be does approximately nothing to get us there. Refusing to engage with the current system does nothing to get us there. disparaging the current system does nothing to get us there. The only thing that actually moves the needle is sitting down and fixing things one little bug at a time. It isn't fun or glamorous and there certainly isn't a divisive slogan for it, but that is reality as I know it.
  - crawfordcomeaux 5y ago
    It's possible to envision a new systemand map a transition from old to new. Iterative, incremental design is one way change can happen, not the only way.

ctoth 5y ago

You are making life choices without much consideration of political and electoral reality, by your own admission. You're allowed to do that. Some of us choose more pragmatic paths and recognize that our individual dislike for 2-party systems does ~nothing to change the fact that we actually physically currently live in a 2-party system which is inherently binary. If you want to win elections, build coalitions. If you want to rant about how abusive the current system is, you can do that, but don't expect to actually win anything.

crawfordcomeaux 5y ago
I don't allow existing systems to limit my thinking like that. Optimizing a part or feature of a system that doesn't need to exist is an element of dumb design. Pragmatism demands exploring ideas beyond the existing systems, otherwise we'll remain trapped in them.
- kmonsen 5y ago
  The system can only be changed by the current political parties, so at the very least you need to build a coalition to change the system.
  - crawfordcomeaux 5y ago
    That's definitely disempowerment talking. There's nothing stopping anyone from creating an alternative government that meets more needs and is more fun to interact with. If it accomplishes that and people are willing to implement it and it doesn't violate laws by existing, then how does any preexisting system prevent people from switching over to it, aside from locking up people who use the new system? Disruption isn't just for companies.
    - kmonsen 5y ago
      I don't even understand what you are talking about. Will this new government control the military/police/taxation? If not then it is just another burden for me. And the old government will still be around so you achieved nothing. I am all for disruption but I really don't know what your plan is. And please understand that disruption is not always good for everyone. A lot of people depend on our current government to survive.
      - crawfordcomeaux 5y ago
        I'm trying to point out the system can be changed from the outside. That's it. I'm not trying to tell you how to do it. I'm simply pointing out it's possible.
ctoth 5y ago
Thinking on this more this conversation reminds me of the new programmer who joins the team and then starts advocating we rewrite everything in Rust, when we need to ship in two weeks. Yes, there might be a perfect system. No, we do not live in or possess this perfect system. Any reform, any positive change, needs to be based on where we actually are. Saying this is how things should be does approximately nothing to get us there. Refusing to engage with the current system does nothing to get us there. disparaging the current system does nothing to get us there. The only thing that actually moves the needle is sitting down and fixing things one little bug at a time. It isn't fun or glamorous and there certainly isn't a divisive slogan for it, but that is reality as I know it.
- crawfordcomeaux 5y ago
  It's possible to envision a new systemand map a transition from old to new. Iterative, incremental design is one way change can happen, not the only way.