4 ms·

> Universal didn't happen because conservatives in both parties refused to do anything other than say "the poor can go to emergency rooms for treatment". "Cons

by _ktx2 5y ago

> Universal didn't happen because conservatives in both parties refused to do anything other than say "the poor can go to emergency rooms for treatment". "Conservatives in both parties" is a bit reductive and I'll also call out as misinformation/misrepresentation: https://ballotpedia.org/Obamacare_overview https://ballotpedia.org/Obamacare_overview But, what is useful here, is you've provided a fantastic example of the rhetorical devices and reduction we can expect to see. I say that as a supporter of Universal Healthcare that both replaces and learns lessons from VA Medical.

GeekyBear 5y ago
> "Conservatives in both parties" is a bit reductive and I'll also call out as misinformation/misrepresentation: Are you under the impression that Manchin or the other Conservative Democrats support universal healthcare? They do not.
- kodah 5y ago
  There's really not that many of them. Secondary to that, which might be a bit pedantic, is I dislike "conservative" being used as a pejorative as I mentioned. It's not really an accurate reflection of what Manchin or others believe in or what the populations they're voting for are concerned with. As I also stated, I think it's a bit reductive.
  - GeekyBear 5y ago
    Seventeen Centrist Democratic Senators voted with Trump to kill banking reform. That does not sound like "not many" of them.
    - kodah 5y ago
      There are 48 Democratic senators and 2 independents. I'd have to look at why each of those 17 decided to vote against banking reform. It's not like it's as simple as "conservative" or "not conservative", which is exactly what I'm calling reductive.
      - GeekyBear 5y ago
        Conservative Democrats have held the leadership roles in the party since the end of the Regan years. >The Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) was a non-profit corporation founded in 1985 that, upon its formation, argued that the United States Democratic Party should shift away from the leftward turn it took in the late 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s. One of its main purposes was to win back white middle class voters with ideas that addressed their concerns. The DLC hailed President Bill Clinton as proof of the viability of Third Way politicians and as a DLC success story. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council

by _ktx2 5y ago

GeekyBear 5y ago

> "Conservatives in both parties" is a bit reductive and I'll also call out as misinformation/misrepresentation: Are you under the impression that Manchin or the other Conservative Democrats support universal healthcare? They do not.

kodah 5y ago
There's really not that many of them. Secondary to that, which might be a bit pedantic, is I dislike "conservative" being used as a pejorative as I mentioned. It's not really an accurate reflection of what Manchin or others believe in or what the populations they're voting for are concerned with. As I also stated, I think it's a bit reductive.
- GeekyBear 5y ago
  Seventeen Centrist Democratic Senators voted with Trump to kill banking reform. That does not sound like "not many" of them.
  - kodah 5y ago
    There are 48 Democratic senators and 2 independents. I'd have to look at why each of those 17 decided to vote against banking reform. It's not like it's as simple as "conservative" or "not conservative", which is exactly what I'm calling reductive.
    - GeekyBear 5y ago
      Conservative Democrats have held the leadership roles in the party since the end of the Regan years. >The Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) was a non-profit corporation founded in 1985 that, upon its formation, argued that the United States Democratic Party should shift away from the leftward turn it took in the late 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s. One of its main purposes was to win back white middle class voters with ideas that addressed their concerns. The DLC hailed President Bill Clinton as proof of the viability of Third Way politicians and as a DLC success story. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council