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How do protests against police violence lead to more crime? Not a single police budget was actually cut.

polski-g 5y ago
If you can expect a murder charge for doing your job, don't expect many people to do said job: https://nypost.com/2020/06/13/unarmed-black-man-shot-dead-by-atlanta-cops-in-wendys-drive-thru/ https://nypost.com/2020/06/13/unarmed-black-man-shot-dead-by...
- SauciestGNU 5y ago
  I'm sure that if I killed someone while at work I would face criminal charges. And yet I still do this job. I think the key thing here is to not kill people, and definitely don't make it somebody's job to kill people.
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    Unless your job requires you to forcibly intervene between armed, violent offenders and their victims, I don’t see how this is relevant.
    - monocasa 5y ago
      Police's job doesn't force them to intervene either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia
      - throwaway894345 5y ago
        You're confusing "forcibly intervene" with "forced to intervene".
        monocasa 5y ago
        > requires you to forcibly intervene They are under no such requirement as shown by the citation.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        throwaway894345 5y ago
        They have the right to opt out of any given encounter, but the gist of law enforcement is intervening as you well know. Anyway, word lawyering is dreadfully boring and it seems that’s all you have to offer so I’m ducking out.
        monocasa 5y ago
        I disagree that addressing the core argument of your claim is "word lawyering". Your original full claim > Unless your job requires you to forcibly intervene between armed, violent offenders and their victims, I don’t see how this is relevant. doesn't hold water when police are also not required to forcibly intervene between armed, violent offenders and their victims.
        BobbyJo 5y ago
        I'm sorry, but the point you're trying to make here is just bad. If some is running around with a knife stabbing everyone and the police just watched because 'they don't want to have to kill anyone's do you think that'd be ok? That is the kind of thing the police force was designed to handle. Sometimes killing someone is the right thing to do when your job is dealing with situations like that.
throwaway894345 5y ago
> Both studies not only identify a decline in police activity and an increase in homicide after a high-profile incident but also argue that the nature of the decline in activity supports a “public scrutiny” mechanism for the effect. In particular, a drop in police activity for minor offenses drives the overall policing pullback. This fact supports a theory (as articulated by Premkumar) whereby officers reduce arrests that they deem “less important” in order to minimize public contact. That differs from a competing theory under which a loss of police “legitimacy”—which, in turn, reduces community engagement with the cops—drives the Ferguson Effect. If the competing theory were borne out, the study should have found reductions in arrests for offenses of all kinds. https://www.city-journal.org/new-evidence-connects-police-protests-and-rising-violent-crime https://www.city-journal.org/new-evidence-connects-police-pr...
rufus_foreman 5y ago
>> Not a single police budget was actually cut "In fiscal 2020-2021, the Austin police budget was $292.9 million, down from $434.5 million the previous year. The City Council slashed $31.5 million directly from the police budget last year. It also put $121.7 million in a reserve fund that was intended to 'decouple or reimagine some public-safety functions' from the police department but which ended up funding police operations, says Alicia Dean, a spokesperson for the city. The City Council also canceled three cadet classes and cut 150 officers from the budget last year, says City Councilor Mackenzie Kelly, an outspoken supporter of the police." - https://www.wsj.com/articles/austin-texas-defund-the-police-murder-burglary-response-budget-cut-staffing-shortage-11633881864 https://www.wsj.com/articles/austin-texas-defund-the-police-... The homicide rate went from 4.7 to 6.2. Yes, I know that doesn't prove causation. But if the homicide rate is going up 32% year over year I want more cops on the street not fewer.

If you can expect a murder charge for doing your job, don't expect many people to do said job: https://nypost.com/2020/06/13/unarmed-black-man-shot-dead-by-atlanta-cops-in-wendys-drive-thru/ https://nypost.com/2020/06/13/unarmed-black-man-shot-dead-by...

SauciestGNU 5y ago
I'm sure that if I killed someone while at work I would face criminal charges. And yet I still do this job. I think the key thing here is to not kill people, and definitely don't make it somebody's job to kill people.
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  Unless your job requires you to forcibly intervene between armed, violent offenders and their victims, I don’t see how this is relevant.
  - monocasa 5y ago
    Police's job doesn't force them to intervene either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia
    - throwaway894345 5y ago
      You're confusing "forcibly intervene" with "forced to intervene".
      - monocasa 5y ago
        > requires you to forcibly intervene They are under no such requirement as shown by the citation.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        throwaway894345 5y ago
        They have the right to opt out of any given encounter, but the gist of law enforcement is intervening as you well know. Anyway, word lawyering is dreadfully boring and it seems that’s all you have to offer so I’m ducking out.
        monocasa 5y ago
        I disagree that addressing the core argument of your claim is "word lawyering". Your original full claim > Unless your job requires you to forcibly intervene between armed, violent offenders and their victims, I don’t see how this is relevant. doesn't hold water when police are also not required to forcibly intervene between armed, violent offenders and their victims.
        BobbyJo 5y ago
        I'm sorry, but the point you're trying to make here is just bad. If some is running around with a knife stabbing everyone and the police just watched because 'they don't want to have to kill anyone's do you think that'd be ok? That is the kind of thing the police force was designed to handle. Sometimes killing someone is the right thing to do when your job is dealing with situations like that.

throwaway894345 5y ago

> Both studies not only identify a decline in police activity and an increase in homicide after a high-profile incident but also argue that the nature of the decline in activity supports a “public scrutiny” mechanism for the effect. In particular, a drop in police activity for minor offenses drives the overall policing pullback. This fact supports a theory (as articulated by Premkumar) whereby officers reduce arrests that they deem “less important” in order to minimize public contact. That differs from a competing theory under which a loss of police “legitimacy”—which, in turn, reduces community engagement with the cops—drives the Ferguson Effect. If the competing theory were borne out, the study should have found reductions in arrests for offenses of all kinds. https://www.city-journal.org/new-evidence-connects-police-protests-and-rising-violent-crime https://www.city-journal.org/new-evidence-connects-police-pr...

rufus_foreman 5y ago

>> Not a single police budget was actually cut "In fiscal 2020-2021, the Austin police budget was $292.9 million, down from $434.5 million the previous year. The City Council slashed $31.5 million directly from the police budget last year. It also put $121.7 million in a reserve fund that was intended to 'decouple or reimagine some public-safety functions' from the police department but which ended up funding police operations, says Alicia Dean, a spokesperson for the city. The City Council also canceled three cadet classes and cut 150 officers from the budget last year, says City Councilor Mackenzie Kelly, an outspoken supporter of the police." - https://www.wsj.com/articles/austin-texas-defund-the-police-murder-burglary-response-budget-cut-staffing-shortage-11633881864 https://www.wsj.com/articles/austin-texas-defund-the-police-... The homicide rate went from 4.7 to 6.2. Yes, I know that doesn't prove causation. But if the homicide rate is going up 32% year over year I want more cops on the street not fewer.